Larry's wet dream

[CuseFan10]

Holy SHIAAAT the Detroit Tigers a damn good baseball team!!!! Yea they gave away two absolutely stud youngsters but they also got back possibly the best hitter in baseball over the next 10 years, and a quality left hander who is still pretty damn young. Verlander, Bonderman, and Willis is formidable to say the least, plus the lineup is flat out filthy.

WOW!

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

yeah...just saw that...WOW!
Tigers getting it done...


From a local standpoint....all the talk is how a deal between the Jays and Giants with Alex Rios for Tim Linecum. Giants need a corner outfielder, and a bat bigtime... and are getting a very good one who is still young, and a 5 tooler...Jays get a stud youngster starter to join Halladay/Burnett/Marcum/Mcgowan to form a very good 5 man rotation...one of the best in baseball if healthy. Add in the good Jays pen (wityh Ryan returning, and Accardo setting up), and I would LOVE that pitching staff.

Another Jays rumour has them also going after Jason Bay (Rios replacement?) very hard! Owner Ted Rogers has made no secret that he wants a Canadian star on the team...and with Morneau, Martin and Francis untouchable...and Bedard too costly...Bay seems like the logical choice....and he is apparentely on the market.

Don't be surprised if those two deals get done.


Also...still waiting on what will happen with Santana....couldn't agree more on your sentiments in the other thread, Cuse....and I love what Minny is doing...not giving in...because with the Yanks and Sox bidding...they will eventually get what the y want, IMO. I hope they eventually fleece the Yanks for Hughes and someone better than Melky!

Any other big news/rumours coming out of Nashville?


Larry, congrats

[CuseFan10]

JML - I don't know any more than you but I think there's a less than zero chance the Giants trade Lincecum for Rios. I wouldn't get your hopes up. If they want Lincecum, they need to add more than Rios. Sabean has no serious interest in moving Lincecum IMHO, though it seems he would be open to moving Cain.

They can just sign an Andruw Jones or Aaron Rowand, and I've read they are in the Miguel Tejada market so he can play 3rd base and a Richie Sexson for 1st base. I can't see them moving a kid with Lincecum's ability when it's so much easier to go out and sign OF's and CI's through free agency or trade for guys like Tejada or Sexson and not give up nearly as much.

[FlyersFan]

Originally Posted by CuseFan10

JML - I don't know any more than you but I think there's a less than zero chance the Giants trade Lincecum for Rios. I wouldn't get your hopes up. If they want Lincecum, they need to add more than Rios. Sabean has no serious interest in moving Lincecum IMHO, though it seems he would be open to moving Cain.

They can just sign an Andruw Jones or Aaron Rowand, and I've read they are in the Miguel Tejada market so he can play 3rd base and a Richie Sexson for 1st base. I can't see them moving a kid with Lincecum's ability when it's so much easier to go out and sign OF's and CI's through free agency or trade for guys like Tejada or Sexson and not give up nearly as much.

Yeah, you're going to have to give up more than Rios for Lincecum. He is set to be the cornerstone of that rotation. JMO.

And verdict is still out on Craptrell......he was AWFUL last season. I mean brutal. So we shall see if he gets it back in DET or not. But wow, adding Cabrera and Renteria...talk about a left side of the infield from the plate.....dang.........

i really knew the Angels thought they had little chance of getting Cabrera after they signed hunter, cuse. The Angels are not an organization to overpay for a player in terms of prospects/current players.

[CuseFan10]

Originally Posted by FlyersFan

i really knew the Angels thought they had little chance of getting Cabrera after they signed hunter, cuse. The Angels are not an organization to overpay for a player in terms of prospects/current players.

FF- I disagree, they had every chance in the world to get Cabrera, they just weren't willing to give away more than three prospects for him. Which is fine, that's their philosophy and obvious what they are doing works since they are on of the most stable franchises in the majors. I can't believe Beinfest and those guys got what they did. Maybin is going to be a superstar and Miller throws absolute GAS. I'm pretty sure three years ago he was the NCAA pitcher of the year at UNC and has looked very good in an early sample so far when I've seen him.

The Halos stuck to their guns, offered a more than adequate package of Kendrick, Adenhart, and Mathis but the Marlins said they wanted Ervin Santana too. Reagins stuck to his guns and didn't back down, good for him. I'm personally very high on Kendrick and Adenhart.

I think Miguel Cabrera will play LF in Detroit unless they move Inge and the $18 million they owe him. Inge, Renteria, Polanco, and Guillen with Cabrera, Granderson and Ordonez with Pudge catching... wow! DH is Sheffield.

Yikes.

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

Well...I don't think that's accurate from what I'm reading or hearing guys....you might be underestimating the value of Rios bigtime....and Rios makes 2.5 million, and has 3 years till arbitration...the guy is a steal, and mega talented....I think the Giants would much prefer him over the old, expensive list of **** you listed....Tejada minus roids...horrible....Sexson/Jones and their .200 averages....all at 15 mil plus??? Please. Rios is young, cheap, already a 2-time allstar, 5-tool player with huge upside. I actually don't want to see him go....but good arms are good arms...might be good for both sides, IMO.

So, anyway...I'm just reporting what I heard from the Toronto papers, and yes...they were reporting Linecum OR Cain for Rios in all the papers today....Linecum has the better pure stuff....but Cain is the same age, and has been around longer....and is the guy the Jays actually prefer....because they feel he would stand up to the rigors of the tough AL East over the long haul better than the frail looking Linecum.

Interestingly enough....tonight, there is more smoke on this deal.....Steve Phillips is reporting the GIANTS would prefer to part with Linecum for Rios (just saw him on TV say that...and that it might be close)...and also read on a San Fransicso paper the same thing...Giants would prefer to give up Linecum over Cain...and apparentely it's a straight up deal.

The SF story also says that the GIANTS could either sweeten the deal for Rios by THEM adding players with Linecum...or agreeing to give up Cain straight up. Pretty interesting...Phillips pretty much says that Rios gets it done right now for Linecum, but that GM Riccardi is holding out for Cain, or a prospect added to the Linecum deal....

Here's one of the many Toronto articles from today...

globesports.com: Toronto zeroes in on pair of Giants

And here's the recent SF article from tonight, posted about 10:00 PM....with even more developments from this afternoon talks...

Winter Meetings: Cain for Alex Rios? How 'interesting'

"The teams were scheduled to talk again here. The Giants could sweeten a Lincecum package with other players or agree to surrender Cain."

Maybe the Giants love him because he lit it up at the home run derby in their home park this year? lol

[FlyersFan]

Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf

Well...I don't think that's accurate from what I'm reading or hearing guys....you might be underestimating the value of Rios bigtime....and Rios makes 2.5 million, and has 3 years till arbitration...the guy is a steal, and mega talented....I think the Giants would much prefer him over the old, expensive list of **** you listed....Tejada minus roids...horrible....Sexson/Jones and their .200 averages....all at 15 mil plus??? Please. Rios is young, cheap, already a 2-time allstar, 5-tool player with huge upside. I actually don't want to see him go....but good arms are good arms...might be good for both sides, IMO.

So, anyway...I'm just reporting what I heard from the Toronto papers, and yes...they were reporting Linecum OR Cain for Rios in all the papers today....Linecum has the better pure stuff....but Cain is the same age, and has been around longer....and is the guy the Jays actually prefer....because they feel he would stand up to the rigors of the tough AL East over the long haul better than the frail looking Linecum.

Interestingly enough....tonight, there is more smoke on this deal.....Steve Phillips is reporting the GIANTS would prefer to part with Linecum for Rios (just saw him on TV say that...and that it might be close)...and also read on a San Fransicso paper the same thing...Giants would prefer to give up Linecum over Cain...and apparentely it's a straight up deal.

The SF story also says that the GIANTS could either sweeten the deal for Rios by THEM adding players with Linecum...or agreeing to give up Cain straight up. Pretty interesting...Phillips pretty much says that Rios gets it done right now for Linecum, but that GM Riccardi is holding out for Cain, or a prospect added to the Linecum deal....

Here's one of the many Toronto articles from today...

globesports.com: Toronto zeroes in on pair of Giants

And here's the recent SF article from tonight, posted about 10:00 PM....with even more developments from this afternoon talks...

Winter Meetings: Cain for Alex Rios? How 'interesting'

"The teams were scheduled to talk again here. The Giants could sweeten a Lincecum package with other players or agree to surrender Cain."

Maybe the Giants love him because he lit it up at the home run derby in their home park this year? lol

i find that hard to believe because the Giants by all accounts loved Lincecum. If they get rid of Lincecum their rotation is garbage (or cain). They would have ****ty Zito who may have raked in one of the best deals for a ****ty player of all time. go play some more guitar chords barry. then they would have either lincecum or cain and then a very average noah lowery (nice 1.60 Whip last year). Cain was great over the last half of last season and was a victim of no run support. Rios better be the man. He will be hitting in Petco, Dodger Stadium, SF whatever it's called ballpark a lot of the time which aren't exactly prime hitters parks (SF is hit or miss depending on the time of year). I agree he had great numbers last year, though.

But sometimes you have to take chances.

[Larry]

Originally Posted by CuseFan10

I think Miguel Cabrera will play LF in Detroit unless they move Inge and the $18 million they owe him. Inge, Renteria, Polanco, and Guillen with Cabrera, Granderson and Ordonez with Pudge catching... wow! DH is Sheffield.

Yikes.

The Tigers are gonna try and move Inge or he'll be the ultimate utility player( he can play any position on the field, maybe even pitch if he had to, lol). Right now Cabrera is slated to play 3rd, with Jaque Jones in left.

CF Granderson
2B Polanco
DH Shefield
RF Ordonez
3B Cabrera
1B Guillen
SS Renteria
LF Jones
C Rodriguez

Verlander, Bonderman, Willis, Rogers, Robertson


**** YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JB]

Is that the Tigers Lineup or the AL All-Stars......

Good Lord....that is filthy

[CuseFan10]

Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf

I think the Giants would much prefer him over the old, expensive list of **** you listed....Tejada minus roids...horrible....Sexson/Jones and their .200 averages....all at 15 mil plus??? Please. Rios is young, cheap, already a 2-time allstar, 5-tool player with huge upside.

Interestingly enough....tonight, there is more smoke on this deal.....Steve Phillips is reporting the GIANTS would prefer to part with Linecum for Rios (just saw him on TV say that...and that it might be close)...and also read on a San Fransicso paper the same thing...Giants would prefer to give up Linecum over Cain...and apparentely it's a straight up deal.

The SF story also says that the GIANTS could either sweeten the deal for Rios by THEM adding players with Linecum...or agreeing to give up Cain straight up. Pretty interesting...Phillips pretty much says that Rios gets it done right now for Linecum, but that GM Riccardi is holding out for Cain, or a prospect added to the Linecum deal....

JML- Couple things and I'll try to type them without being my know-it-all self, haha.

Steve Phillips is a ******* idiot. He doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall. He's never correctly broken one story in his life, and thinks he is Buster Olney, Tim Kurkjian, or John Heyman - and he's just simply not. He's a still semi-bitter former GM who still has friends (maybe) in high places, and continuously seems to get bad information. He gives good opinions and speaks his mind, which I like, but on the reporting angle of deals being done he's has not a clue as to what's going on.

Also, Rios is set to make a ton of money in arbitration after over the next three years (FA in 2011), or he will get a long term deal to buy out the arbitration years so he's not going to be cheap at all - especially not compared to Cain and Lincecum making near the league minimum. The Giants definitely want a pitcher back in addition to Rios (Janssen or Marcum I've heard/read).

Lastly, I think you kinda missed my point about Rios and the other offensive players. I understand Rios is far and away the better talent then guys like Tejada or Sexson, but to get those guys you don't have to give up Cain or Lincecum. The Giants have plenty of money to spendwith Bonds coming off the books amongst Feliz and others too, and they have above average pitching with Zito, Cain, Lincecum, and Lowry. I just don't see the point in breaking that up to get an outfielder who is about to make $10 million+ in two years or so.

This is from the SF Chronicle: The Jays would reportedly prefer Matt Cain in an Alex Rios deal, while the Giants would be more likely to part with Tim Lincecum.

Analysis from website
We don't think the Giants should surrender either in a straight-up deal. Rios is plenty good, but he still hasn't proven he's a star and he's about to start getting expensive. He's the kind of player the Giants have tended to overrate, as he has neither tremendous power nor a strong walk rate. On the plus side, he is a great defensive corner outfielder and he still has some room for improvement. The Giants, though, should insist on getting Shaun Marcum or Casey Janssen along with him if they're going to trade Cain or Lincecum.

[CuseFan10]

Originally Posted by Larry

CF Granderson
2B Polanco
DH Shefield
RF Ordonez
3B Cabrera
1B Guillen
SS Renteria
LF Jones
C Rodriguez

I can't see Pudge hitting 9th, he will flip ****. He will hit 8th for pride purposes, if nothing else. Is that your analysis Larry or did you get that from a Tigers site or something? I agree they try to move Inge for a prospect or two (if they can), but I can't see them playing a Jacque Jones/Marcus Thames platoon over having Inge in the line-up if he's there, plus Cabrera is quite possibly the worst defensive 3rd baseman in all of baseball, and has OF experience from when he came up. Very interesting. Can't really go wrong either way, huh? Ha.

I'd hit Cabrera 4th and Ordonez 5th too. I assume you'd rather have Cabrera protectd that Maggs, no? Not that Guillen isn't great protection, cause he is. Man, that's a nasty line-up. Renteria 7th, haha... Wow.

[CuseFan10]

Jays offer Rios for Lincecum
The Blue Jays will not add major league pitching to their offer of Alex Rios for Matt Cain or Tim Lincecum.

We suggested last night that it might take Shaun Marcum or Casey Janssen to get a deal done, but the Blue Jays apparently won't add any other significant pieces. If the Giants accept the deal anyway, then it's far more likely that Janssen will remain in the pen next year. The Jays would probably give the open outfield spot to Adam Lind, though they could look to add a righty to share time with him. Dec. 5 - 11:58 am et

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

No worries cuse.....I always like your insight....

JP Riccardi pretty much said today (he's been so open to the Toronto press during these meetings, pretty much laying out the Rios/Giants deal on the table, and saying Glaus and Burnett are on the block...very unlike him!) that he would do Cain/Rios straight up or Linecum plus a prospect for Rios. ADDING Marcum? That's a dream...as he is also a young pitcher with upside who had a similar year to the two Giants. That makes no sense at all....like giving Rios away.

Also...I thought the Rios money situation was a positive thing for the Giants because its not for 3 years...thats what I've read...but you're spinning it like a negative for some reason...3 years is a long time until you have to cash him in...that should be a bonus you don't have to pay big for that kind of talent...even if the 2 pitchers are even cheaper...

We'll see what happens...probably nothing...and I hope it's nothing. I'd like to keep Rios, and the rotation of Halladay/Burnett/Marcum/Mcgowan/Chacin/Janssenn is fine...

[JohnnyMapleLeaf]

Originally Posted by CuseFan10

Jays offer Rios for Lincecum
The Blue Jays will not add major league pitching to their offer of Alex Rios for Matt Cain or Tim Lincecum.

We suggested last night that it might take Shaun Marcum or Casey Janssen to get a deal done, but the Blue Jays apparently won't add any other significant pieces. If the Giants accept the deal anyway, then it's far more likely that Janssen will remain in the pen next year. The Jays would probably give the open outfield spot to Adam Lind, though they could look to add a righty to share time with him. Dec. 5 - 11:58 am et

Yeah...that was not going to happen no way JP adds a good pitcher like those 2.....interesting...we'll see if something comes of it. Big news around here, as Rios is becoming a VERY popular player in these parts...and is probably the most talented positional player they've had since Alomar...

And...there goes my plan of Bay replacing Rios after the Giants trade...I thought that was JP's plan...after Rios is gone, get Bay for 2 or 3 prime prospects.....but it looks like Bay is going to Cleveland...

Looks like if the deal gets done, Jays might have Wells in centre, then platoon Lind/Stairs/Johnson in the corners.

[CuseFan10]

Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf

Also...I thought the Rios money situation was a positive thing for the Giants because its not for 3 years...thats what I've read...but you're spinning it like a negative for some reason...3 years is a long time until you have to cash him in...that should be a bonus you don't have to pay big for that kind of talent...even if the 2 pitchers are even cheaper...

We'll see what happens...probably nothing...and I hope it's nothing. I'd like to keep Rios, and the rotation of Halladay/Burnett/Marcum/Mcgowan/Chacin/Janssenn is fine...

Rios has to be set to make $5-6 million in arbitration, no? Then, the next year more and the next year more if he performs like we think he would. Plus, I would could be completely wrong but after this season, he seems to be a prime candidate for an arbitration buy-out type contract like Hafner, Reyes, Wright got wouldn't you say?

Interesting trade idea. I wouldn't trade him unless they know they can't sign him for whatever reason.

Any rumors floating around there about AJ Burnett to the Mets? That's being bandied about here though AJ being able to pot-out after next season is an obvious pitfall that probably won't allow a deal to get done. I've heard Heilman, Pelfrey, and someone else for AJ Burnett is a far off possibility???