![]() Lots of betting options! Takes Visa cards like a hot knife through butter! Click Here To Sign Up Click Here For the Review | ![]() Very generous signup bonuses! Best at processing credit cards! Click Here To Sign Up Click Here For The Review | ![]() Tired of your credit card not working at sportsbooks? No problem here! Click Here To Sign Up Click Here For the Review | ![]() Save BIG money by betting on games at -105 reduced odds! Click Here To Sign Up Click Here For the Review |
| Quick Site Links: NFL Football | College Football | NBA Basketball | College Basketball | MLB Baseball | NHL Hockey | Soccer | |
| More Site Links: Boxing | NASCAR | Golf | Horse Racing | Sportsbooks | Sports Betting | Sports Handicapping | Handicappers | Superbowl | |
| Online Poker: Poker | Texas Holdem | Omaha Poker | Poker Rooms | Poker Tournaments | |
| Casino Gambling: Slots | Blackjack | Video Poker | Craps | Roulette | Baccarat | Keno | Online Casinos | |
|
|||||||
| NFL Football Do your handicapping and make your pro football picks from the National Football League here! For more picks with analysis, check out the NFL Betting section of our site! |
![]() ![]() |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
||||
|
Prior to the Championship games the line was
AFC-3/43.5 So were giving 4 more points to Arizona and moving the total up 3 points
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
|
||||
|
DIRECT FROM NEVADA
With Linesmaker Nick Bogdanovich NEVADA WILL HOPE FOR THE BEST WITH CARDS/STEELERS SUPER BOWL It doesn't exactly light up the night sky in neon. The Arizona Cardinals and Pittsburgh Steelers won their way into the 43rd Super Bowl with conference championship victories this past Sunday. "Sharps" (professional wagerers) generally did well on the day with big bets on Arizona (+) over Philadelphia (with a lot of moneyline bets on the dog to win outright as well), and the Over 34 in Baltimore/Pittsburgh. The public was happy to see both games go Over. The typical "square" approach of favorites and Overs went 3-1 on the day. Obviously, if most of the bettors were reasonably happy with the day, the sportsbooks must not have been! Proposition bets helped the books out, as they always do. And, oddsmakers know that whenever the public wins...they go right back to the window and make another bet. The public always loses eventually. Any money they win is like a temporary loan. Sportsbooks operators were more concerned in general with the relatively lackluster matchup two weeks hence. Arizona is a team that few really think of as Super Bowl caliber. Pittsburgh advanced by the skin of its teeth after playing a horrible second half against Baltimore. It would be one thing if this was a popular Cinderella facing a true superpower. That would bring out action on both sides of the equation. If it's "pretender" vs. "winning ugly," mainstream interest is going to be much less than in recent seasons. Last year was a dream scenario, with a Cinderella team led by a name quarterback representing a classic franchise in a huge city...facing a dynasty franchise chasing immortality. Nevada (or the NFL) couldn't have asked for a better matchup to market. Steelers/Cardinals is quite a letdown in context. Arizona has to be one of the LAST teams that Nevada wanted in the Super Bowl! There's no national following in terms of a fan base. There's no big media following. This isn't a team you love to love...or love to hate. The great thing about the media teams in terms of driving betting action is that so many teams hate them! Sure there are some good stories here. The networks will do what they can to tell them. Kurt Warner's return to the top is certainly storybook. Larry Fitzgerald is finally getting the recognition he's always deserved. You can bet he'll be the focus of several Super Bowl betting propositions. The Cards obviously aren't a marquee franchise in terms of recent history. There's just not much here that's going to light a fire for the general public. Pittsburgh seems less like a pretender because they play great defense and earned a bye. Still, the Steelers really couldn't establish themselves in big games this year. They struggled all season against quality opposition...either winning or losing low scoring slugfests. Sunday's result would have been 16-14 if not for the late pick six. How many 16-14 type games did Pittsburgh play? I've lost count. The public HATES watching games like that! You know, casinos are having a hard time right now in both Las Vegas and Reno because of the national economy. They were hoping an exciting Super Bowl matchup would invigorate the state of Nevada. Sports fans are still going to bet the game because sports fans find a way to bet the Super Bowl! The bet sizes will be smaller. The collateral interest just isn't there without a team chasing history...or the Dallas Cowboys...or even a Manning brother! I can tell you that oddsmakers will try to make the most of the situation. Even before the Super Bowl matchup was finalized with the end of the Baltimore/Pittsburgh game late Sunday, oddsmakers were hard at work making plans for an onslaught of action. The Super Bowl openers always gets bet heavily by the public as soon as the pointspread and total go up on the board after the championship games have ended. "Squares" are still in town because many traveled in Sunday for the league championship games. They watched both games on the big screen TV's during the day. They want to bet the Super Bowl before they go back home. They're caught up in the excitement of the moment, especially if they won their bets in the last game! The Super Bowl may also heavily bet by professional wagerers as soon as the line goes up. It depends They have a number in mind. If "sharps" see an edge they don't think will last, they'll take it right at the opener. What's more common though is that the sharps will take a position on the favorite knowing the public is likely to take the number higher. Then, sharps will come back over the top on the underdog closer to kick off. When done properly, this sets up a middle opportunity while allowing sharps to get down heavily on their preferred side. The same thing can happen on the Over/Under, where the public typically bets the Over, and the professionals will take early positions to set up middles later. On the off chance that the line just seems too high to begin with (which happened last year in the New England/NY Giants game), sharps will hit the dog right away if they figure that's the best line they're going to get. This is rare. Last year we had a public team as the underdog. It's funny how it works out every year. Sportsbooks are deluged with Super Bowl action as soon as the Championship games end. Then, it's relatively quiet in terms of side and total action for about a week and a half. Squares start matriculating to Las Vegas (and, to a lesser extent, Reno) on the Thursday before the Super Bowl. That's when the action picks up again...with game day itself being an absolute madhouse. Once that initial surge has subsided, oddsmakers start thinking about props. This has become an animal in its own right. You'll have 15 sheets of prop options by the time the game rolls around. These take 2-3 days to put together. Some are as simple as picking which team will win the coin flip. Others are directly related to key players in the game. Some are just silly. The public bets them all! Sportsbooks now do HUGE business on the props. And, they generally clear a good profit. Limits are kept reasonable to prevent sharps from badly abusing any off numbers. The vigorish is higher on these in terms of the moneyline payoffs, so the public is taking the worst of it right off the bat. And, the public tends to have no idea how to really handicap these options. So, the squares make BAD picks at BAD odds on one side of the equation, and the sharps are kept in check to a degree by low limits on the other.
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
|
||||
|
“Free at last. Free at last. Thank God almighty, we are free at last.” The same
words uttered by the late, great Martin Luther King is also the theme-dream for the Arizona Cardinals who earned a trip to the Super Bowl for the first time in franchise history. In the process they have freed themselves from the stigma of born losers. With just ONE winning season in the previous twenty-three years, the Red Birds turned to former Super Bowl winner Kurt Warner early in the season and he helped them shed the shackles that have bound this team for three decades. Ironically, former Pittsburgh assistant head coach Ken Whisenhunt now leads his team against his former employer and the coach, Mike Tomlin, he was spurned for in this, the game for top-honors in the league. FYI: Whisenhunt beat Tomlin, 21-14, last year as a 6-point home dog in the only meeting between these two. To set the record straight, the House of Cards are the first 9-7 team in NFL history to reach the Super Bowl. The Cardinals won their last division title in 1975. They’ve won two league championships – in 1925 and 1947. We’re talking a mighty long time between winning hands here, folks. But that’s what happens when a team catches fire. Warner’s main target, WR Larry Fitzgerald, is arguably the best receiver in the game today. His companion, Anquan Boldin, makes them the best wide receiver tandem in the league. Together with Warner, they form as serious an offensive threat as any team in the loop. Like the New York Giants last year, Big Red enters the Super Bowl off an upset win, generally a good omen for teams competing in the biggest game of all as they are 11-6-1 ATS in this role, including 5-0 ATS the last five and 5-1-1 ATS if they are off back-to-back upset underdog victories. Toss in Whisenhunt’s 13-7 ATS mark in games off a win, including 7-2 SU and 8-1 ATS when facing a greater than .666 opponent, and suddenly there is a lot to like about these upstart Birds. The bad news, however – and there is always bad news – is that you have to go back to 1977 to find the last time the Cardinals managed to win 5 games in a row as they are 0-6 SU and ATS in games off 4 straight wins. Meanwhile, Tomlin’s Steelers are eerily similar to Pittsburgh teams of the past, getting the job done the old fashioned way… with defense. The Steelers’ top ranked stop-unit is 92 YPG superior to the Cardinals and is the main reason they are 14-4 ‘In The Stats’ this season (Arizona is 12-7 ITS). And speaking of Tomlin, he’s 4-0 SU and ATS against NFC competition that is off back-to-back wins. Steeler QB Ben Roethlisberger is a sterling 7-2 SU and ATS in his career during the post-season, including 4-1 SU and 5-0 ATS when playing with revenge. Big Ben is also 39-3 SU and 29-13 ATS in his NFL career as a favorite of 4 or more points, including 21-0 SU and 16-5 ATS if the opponent owns a win percentage of .333 or more. Going back to their Super Bowl XL win over Seattle in the 2005 season, Pittsburgh has reeled off 7 consecutive covers in post-season play (6-1 SU), scoring 21 or more points in each game. Not a good number if you’re a desert-lover considering the Cardinals’ 18-54 ATS record as a dog in games in which they allow 21 or more points this decade. Neither is the fact that AFC favorites of 6 or more points are 43-6 SU and 33-15-1 ATS versus greater than .400 NFC opposition this decade, including 22-0 SU and 18-3-1 ATS when coming off a game against a division rival. And just like that those impressive stats we spewed about Arizona have lost their zest. In closing, some SUPER BOWL FACTS to consider: the last thirteen Super Bowls have seen the favorite go 9-4 SU and 4-7-2 ATS; the last 14 favorites to score 30 or less points are 2-12-1 ATS; teams who score 27 or more points are 23-1 SU and 21-2-1 ATS; teams who score 20 or less points are 1-24 SU and 4-20-1 ATS; and finally, the last thirteen years the higher seeded team is 1-10-2 ATS! A lot of numbers to ponder, for sure. The bottom line is this game pairs Super Bowl winning quarterbacks, one whose team has a rock solid defense; the other whose team is the 2nd best in the league scoring points. Like MLK, the Cardinals may have a dream, but it’s the Steelers that will wear the ring.
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
|
||||
|
Pittsburgh Steelers vs. Arizona Cardinals
- The Pittsburgh Steelers and the Arizona Cardinals will both be gunning for a victory on Sunday, February 1 when they meet at Raymond James Stadium in Tampa Bay for Super Bowl XLIII. Oddsmakers currently have the Steelers listed as 6½-point favorites versus the Cardinals, while the game's total is sitting at 47. The Steelers defeated Baltimore 23-14 as a 6-point favorite in the AFC Championship Game. The combined score went OVER the posted over/under total (35.5). Ben Roethlisberger passed for 255 yards with a 65-yard touchdown strike to Santonio Holmes for Pittsburgh, while Troy Polamalu ran back an interception 40 yards for a touchdown. The Cardinals upset Philadelphia 32-25 as a 3.5-point underdog in the NFC Championship Game. The combined score went OVER the posted over/under total (47). Kurt Warner passed for 279 yards with four touchdowns for Arizona, and Larry Fitzgerald caught nine passes for 152 yards with three touchdowns in the win. Regular season records: Pittsburgh: 12-4 SU, 9-7 ATS Arizona: 9-7 SU, 9-7 ATS Pittsburgh most recently: When playing in February are 1-0 When playing on grass are 7-3 After outgaining opponent are 7-3 When playing outside the division are 6-4 Arizona most recently: When playing on grass are 6-4 After being outgained are 5-5 When playing outside the division are 5-5 After playing Philadelphia are 2-8 A few trends to consider: Pittsburgh is 8-1 SU in its last 9 games Pittsburgh is 7-1 ATS in its last 8 games The total has gone OVER in 4 of Pittsburgh's last 5 games when playing Arizona The total has gone OVER in 5 of Arizona's last 6 games The total has gone OVER in 4 of Arizona's last 5 games when playing Pittsburgh Arizona is 4-1 SU in its last 5 games Arizona is 4-1 ATS in its last 5 games
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
|
||||
|
How Top Seeds have Fared (since 1990)
Since the NFL adopted the 12-team playoff format in 1990, 18 of 38 No. 1 seeds have advanced to the Super Bowl with eight No. 1s being crowned NFL champions. AFC === Year No. 1 Seed Season Result ---- ---------- ------------- 2008 Tennessee Lost Divisional 2007 New England Lost Super Bowl XLII 2006 San Diego Lost Divisional 2005 Indianapolis Lost Divisional 2004 Pittsburgh Lost AFC Championship 2003 New England Won Super Bowl XXXVIII 2002 Oakland Lost Super Bowl XXXVII 2001 Pittsburgh Lost AFC Championship 2000 Tennessee Lost Divisional 1999 Jacksonville Lost AFC Championship 1998 Denver Won Super Bowl XXXIII 1997 Kansas City Lost Divisional 1996 Denver Lost Divisional 1995 Kansas City Lost Divisional 1994 Pittsburgh Lost AFC Championship 1993 Buffalo Lost Super Bowl XXVIII 1992 Pittsburgh Lost Divisional 1991 Buffalo Lost Super Bowl XXVI 1990 Buffalo Lost Super Bowl XXV NFC === Year No. 1 Seed Season Result ---- ---------- ------------- 2008 New York Giants Lost Divisional 2007 Dallas Lost Divisional 2006 Chicago Lost Super Bowl XLI 2005 Seattle Lost Super Bowl XL 2004 Philadelphia Lost Super Bowl XXXIX 2003 Philadelphia Lost NFC Championship 2002 Philadelphia Lost NFC Championship 2001 St. Louis Lost Super Bowl XXXVI 2000 New York Giants Lost Super Bowl XXXV 1999 St. Louis Won Super Bowl XXXIV 1998 Minnesota Lost NFC Championship 1997 San Francisco Lost NFC Championship 1996 Green Bay Won Super Bowl XXXI 1995 Dallas Won Super Bowl XXX 1994 San Francisco Won Super Bowl XXIX 1993 Dallas Won Super Bowl XXVIII 1992 San Francisco Lost NFC Championship 1991 Washington Won Super Bowl XXVI 1990 San Francisco Lost NFC Championship
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
|
||||
|
How recent Cinderellas have fared on Super Bowl Sunday
By JOSH NAGEL | January 20, 2009 | Underdog bettors love the Super Bowl and, history suggests, the underdogs love them back. And the big dogs bite harder. Even so, there is a warning in store for Super Bowl gamblers who must love dogs: The Arizona Cardinals might not be enough of a Cinderella to make it worth your while. Although the Cardinals were widely panned as one of the worst division winners and least playoff-worthy teams in recent memory, their trip to Super Bowl XLIII Jan. 31 in Tampa against the Pittsburgh Steelers comes with a little more respect from the oddsmakers than you might imagine. They are a 7-point underdog at most sports books. If you count yourself among those who covet the big dog in the big game, this isn’t exactly great news. You should have been hoping for more points. This is because the facts show that the bigger the dog, the better the bet in the Super Bowl. Case in point: Over the past 13 seasons, double-figure underdogs in the Super Bowl are 4-0-1 ATS and have won the past three outright. In fact, the last double-digit chalk to do the deed for bettors was the 1995 San Francisco 49ers, who managed to beat the astounding 19-point spot afforded backers of the San Diego Chargers in the 49-26 romp in Super Bowl XXIX. By contrast, 7-point favorites are 2-1-1 ATS in the same span, the last such contest resulting a cover grinded out by the Colts in their 29-17 win over the Bears two seasons ago in Super Bowl XLI. In 2004, the Patriots failed to cover the number in their 32-29 triumph over the Carolina Panthers in Super Bowl XXXIV, while the Rams and Titans gave everyone a refund in 2000 after the Rams posted a 23-16 win as a seven-point favorite. So while Arizona’s run has included impressive upsets as a 10-point road underdog to the Carolina Panthers and Sunday’s 32-25 win in the NFC championship game to the 4-point favored Philadelphia Eagles, their long-shot story lacks a bit of the David vs. Goliath storyline of past Super Bowl underdogs. While the seven-point spread represents a significant gap in the perception of strength between the two teams, it is far from monumental. For example, last season the Giants were the wild-card afterthought turned road-warrior buzzsaw, with stunning wins over the Buccaneers, Cowboys and Packers to earn their place in the Super Bowl. There, they played spoiler to New England’s bid to become the first 19-0 team in NFL history and cemented their place in sports betting lore with a 17-14 win as a 12.5-point underdog. In other words, the Cardinals appear to have their work cut out for them as a mid-range underdog. But in homage to the spread beaters who have come before them, here is a brief look back at recent colossal upsets in the Super Bowl: SB XLII -- 2008 -- New York Giants 17, New England Patriots 14 (Giants +12.5) – Eli Manning’s 13-yard touchdown pass to Plaxico Burress in the final minute clinched the historic upset for the Giants, who used a masterful defensive plan to slow down Tom Brady and the previously undefeated New England Patriots. XXXVI -- 2002 -- Patriots 20, Rams 17 (Patriots +14) – This was the coming out party for the aforementioned Brady, who went from obscure sixth-round draft pick to Super Bowl hero in one fell swoop. He led the game-winning drive in the final minute – eschewing analyst John Madden’s advice to take a knee and play for overtime – leading to Adam Vinatieri’s memorable 48-yard field goal that split the uprights as time expired. XXXII 1998 Broncos 31, Packers 24 (Denver +12) – The first of John Elway’s two consecutive Super Bowl titles to put an end to his Hall of Fame career was an upset for the ages. The Broncos used the determination of Elway and a 157-yard, three-touchdown performance from Terrell Davis to turn back Brett Favre and the heavily favored Packers
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
|
||||
|
Quote:
Will use Pinnacles Lines open at -6.5 -103 moved to -7 +101 now -7 +105 5:25P 32924 Total Bets one week prior to SB! 13464 Bets since Monday Morning 101 Pittsburgh Steelers 42% ATS 39% ML (ATS Down 6% ML Down 13%) 102 Arizona Cardinals 58% ATS 61% ML (ATS Up 6% ML Up 13%) This is from another site Cardinals 60.96% up 6.58 % Steelers 39.04% down 6.58% 9960 Bets (4068 bets since last monday morning) BB
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
|
||||
|
Quote:
Will use Pinnacles Lines open at -6.5 -103 moved to -7 +101 now -7 +105 now 6.5 -103 5:25P 59733 Total Bets 2 days prior to SB and 13345 more bets since Monday 101 Pittsburgh Steelers 44% ATS 33% ML (ATS Down 4% ML Down 19%) 102 Arizona Cardinals 56% ATS ML 67% (ATS Up 4% ML Up 19%) This if from another book Cardinals 55.30% up .92% Steelers 44.70% down .92% 18228 Bets (4200 bets since Monday)
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
|
||||
|
Here you go Steve... I don't know if your on there mailer?
NFL Playoffs - Games to Watch (1-2 = 33.3%) The NFL Playoffs are a totally different animal than the NFL Regular season. The amount of “Public” square bets skyrockets. The culmination of this trend is the Super Bowl, the most wagered sporting event of the year. Everyone, and their mother, wagers on the Super Bowl. From the casual “box-office-pool” – to the professional sports bettor – to the Superbowl commercials: everyone has some interest in the Superbowl. For value-minded sports investors, this massive influx of “Public” money means opportunity. During the NFL Playoffs, odds makers heavily weigh Public opinion when deciding on a game's betting line. They'll shade a line 2-3 pts knowing that the Public will be heavily on one side. “Public Money” dwarfs the amount of “Sharp Money” buying back the shaded lines. Superbowl XLIII Contrarian Sports Investing (“SIs”) believes in a contrarian approach to sports investing and seeks out value in the sports marketplace. One of the key parameters to SportsInsights' quantitative approach to sports betting is our proprietary sports betting percentages, compiled from several online sportsbooks. The betting percentages tell us the percentage of bets on each side of a bet. Our research has shown that it normally pays to “fade” the public or “bet against the Public.” The Public typically likes taking the favorite in most sports events. However, this year's Superbowl shows the Public loving the Arizona Cardinals and their Cinderella march to the Superbowl. This is an interesting departure for the Public and shows how much “value” there might be on the Steelers. This contrarian factor of “fading” the Public points to the Steelers. Edge: Pittsburgh Steelers Current Betting Percentages on the Super Bowl Pittsburg Steelers 42% Arizona Cardinals 58% Smart Money and Point Spread Line Movement This method is more selective but also more powerful because historically, it has had a better winning percentage than using “betting percentages” as a standalone indicator. For the Superbowl, the “generally-available” line opened at Pittsburgh -6.5. As we saw above, early Superbowl betting has most of the bets (about 60%) coming in on the underdog Arizona Cardinals. Even with the majority of bets landing on Arizona, the line has inched up to Pittsburgh -7. This is a relatively large move in the NFL – especially near a “key number” like 7. This means that “big money” – which is usually “smart money” – is taking the Steelers. In other words, even though most bettors are on Arizona, “big bets” on Pittsburgh are more than balancing the Public's action on Arizona. This indicator says to go along with the “smart money” and take Pittsburgh. Edge: Pittsburgh Steelers -6.5 (Bookmaker.com) Intangibles and Other Contrarian Angles Arizona's offense has been pounding the opposition. After being one of the highest-scoring teams during the regular season, Kurt Warner and crew have rung up more than 30 points in each of their playoff match-ups. Warner and his receivers look like they are playing pick-up football against a bunch of five-year-olds! The Public loves offense and this is another reason we feel that Arizona is currently over-valued. We'll “sell” the Cardinals at a recent “high.” During the early part of the regular season, the media focused on teams like Tennessee and both NY teams as “Superbowl favorites.” Later in the season, fans saw teams like the Eagles, the Chargers, and the Colts streak into the playoffs. Meanwhile, the Pittsburgh Steelers played “steady football” all season long and “quietly” (if you can call their defense quiet!) ran up a 12-4 record, yielding a league-low 223 points. Some of the intangibles point to “selling” the Cardinals at a “high” and “buying” a great Steelers team that avoided being over-hyped. Edge: Pittsburgh Steelers -6.5 (Bookmaker.com) Quick Analysis of Recent Superbowl Scores recent Superbowl scores. • 3 out of the last 5 Superbowls were settled by a FG or less. • 4 out of the last 7 Superbowls were settled by a FG or less. • 6 out the last 11 Superbowls were settled by a TD or less. We normally hate giving 7 points or more (or even taking a favorite!). However, we let the numbers do the talking. And, yet again, the recent history of Superbowls (and an emphasis on shorter-term events) might be giving us some value. Over the much larger sample size of 42 Superbowl games: • 29 out of 42 games have been settled by more than a TD. Football fans seem to be forgetting how we used to see lopsided (and sadly, sometimes boring) Superbowls. This is giving us some value as the general Public is taking the points in this Superbowl. Edge: Pittsburgh Steelers -6.5 (Bookmaker.com) Overview Almost all of our regular angles and analysis of the “sports marketplace” point to contrarian value on the Pittsburgh Steelers. Remember to “shop for the best line” because you can still get Pittsburgh -6.5 if you check around. Does defense win Championships? We'll see in a few days. Games to Watch - Playoff Editions (1-2 = 33.3%) Pittsburgh Steelers -6.5 (Bookmaker.com) It should be another exciting NFL Super Bowl. Keep Sports MarketWatch picks handy and your browser pointed to SportsInsights.com for the latest real-time updates, using our exclusive Sports Investing tools. I'll be back next NFL Season with an all new edition of the Sports MarketWatch. Enjoy the games! __________________
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
|
||||
|
Quote:
102012 101 Pittsburgh Steelers 42% ATS 31% ML (Down 6% ATS ML Down 22% Since opening) 102 Arizona Cardinals 58% 69% ML Cardinals 53.71% Steelers 46.29% 32516 Bets Have a great day! BB
__________________
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." |
![]() ![]() |
| Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|