NHL 2008-2009 Discussion - Sports Betting Forums

FlyersFan · #1 (**permalink**) 09-08-2008, 12:28 PM

Season starts in about 4 weeks. Wanted to see if people had some thoughts on the league and some potential sleepers, teams that got better over the summer and teams that got worse. I still have some work to do on this and i honestly need to go back and check out a lot of the mid to smaller moves that teams made.

But if you have comments post away. I know Ang should be somewhat happy with most people picking EDM to be back in the playoffs. Two teams i will be interested to see if they can build on last year are WAS and CHI. Both have young players at the core and should be playoff teams IMO.

Two teams i am curious to see if they can rebound at all are VAN and TAM.

I will chip in some discussion in the coming couple of weeks, but if you have information or opinions let them fly.

Angelus · #2 (**permalink**) 09-14-2008, 11:49 PM

I do hope the Oilers will be a playoff team. My only concern is that they won so many games in shootouts last year and I can't see them duplicating that. Should be an interesting season...

JohnnyMapleLeaf · #3 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 09:47 AM

Repeat playoff years: Detroit, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Washington, NJ, NYR, ANA, Colo, Dallas, Calgary, Philly.

Detroit has another great year with essentially the same team, with the young forwards another year older, and Hossa added to the mix. Scary good. Washington can go nowhere but up, with another year of Ovchkin, Semin, Backstrom and Green together. Nice addition of Theodore in net. All the other teams will be there...none of them looked to lose anything siginficant.

Improving teams: Buffalo, Tampa, Chicago, Phoenix, Edmonton

Much like the rest of the world...I really see Chicago having a good run this year. Toews and Kane in their soph years....Patrick Sharp and a healthy (hopefully) Havlat. Andrew Ladd and Byfuglien ready to step up. Campbell added to an already solid young defence, and Huet added to net. Trade Khabibulin for a veteran top 6 forward, and you're there.

Like Edmonton too. Another group of young forwards ready to step up even more. I like adding veteran Cole to that group...he'll finally replace Smyth's grit and scoring. Horcoff back healthy...Hemsky ready to put up bigger numbers. If Gagner, Cogliano and Penner improve their numbers...look out. Vsinovsky was a good addition as a puck moving defenceman...an upgrade to Pikanen...and with Souray returning, that PP could be deadly. The only thing is goaltending...but Garon is a good unheralded option.

Buffalo was a little too young last year, but I see them coming together for a playoff year. Tampa is a wildcard...but lots of talent up front, and a huge overhaul...I think they squeak in for an 8th seed. Phoenix was a surprise last year, but I think they continue to improve...nice addition of Jokinen to Doan on the first line, and Mueller is in for a big year...solid goaltending.

Take a step back: San Jose, Minny, Ottawa, Boston.

Tavares/Hedman 2009 draft sweepstakes: Leafs, Kings, Islanders, Canucks, Blues....but at least the Kings have some young talent to build on! Leafs likely battle NYI for last overall. Canucks a goaltending injury away from being last place.

JohnnyMapleLeaf · #4 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelus

I do hope the Oilers will be a playoff team. My only concern is that they won so many games in shootouts last year and I can't see them duplicating that. Should be an interesting season...

How do you feel about Garon...is he in for a breakout year? Will he get 60 starts?

Angelus · #5 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf

How do you feel about Garon...is he in for a breakout year? Will he get 60 starts?

I'm a huge Garon fan. I was extremely happy when we signed him and I think at this point in his career he's a much better option than Rolie.

Provided he stays healthy, I think he could hit 60 starts and put up some decent numbers.

JohnnyMapleLeaf · #6 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 11:12 AM

Thanks. I'm in a huge pool every year (won some cash with 3rd place last year) that you pick your team by money amounts, with a Cap...meaning you can't just pick superstars. I have 2 of my 3 goalies picked (Fluery/Price), but I need a third selection, and I am debating between the value of Garon, Theodore, Bryzgalov, Ellis & Biron. They're all about the same $ ...but trying to figure out who will get the most starts. Leaning to Garon or Biron, as they'll have the best teams in front of them, and should get 70% of the starts...

Angelus · #7 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf

Thanks. I'm in a huge pool every year (won some cash with 3rd place last year) that you pick your team by money amounts, with a Cap...meaning you can't just pick superstars. I have 2 of my 3 goalies picked (Fluery/Price), but I need a third selection, and I am debating between the value of Garon, Theodore, Bryzgalov, Ellis & Biron. They're all about the same $ ...but trying to figure out who will get the most starts. Leaning to Garon or Biron, as they'll have the best teams in front of them, and should get 70% of the starts...

Sounds like an awesome pool. I'd go with Bryzgalov out of that group...

JohnnyMapleLeaf · #8 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelus

Sounds like an awesome pool. I'd go with Bryzgalov out of that group...

Yeah...he had good numbers last year, and looks to get a lot of starts this year with Tellqvist as his backup...but my concern is the Coyotes defence...they traded 2 of their top 4 guys to Florida for Jokinen.

If you want in on the pool shoot me an email...it usually has over a hundred people.

FlyersFan · #9 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 03:02 PM

JML- curious why you think that SAN is going to slip in the West. I honestly don't see anyone who has gotten any better than they should be. CHI and EDM should be improved but that will be at the expense of someone like Minnesota. Adding Boyle to that blueline is a massive upgrade offensively from Campbell on the blue line. I have never been a Campbell fan. I think he's massively overrated. And unless you expect SAN goaltending to take a nose dive i don't see how they are going to be any worse off than they were last year. Blake was another good addition. They needed leadership in the lockerroom and he will bring that. Dude can also still play, though, not the Blake of 10 years ago. He is still a force on the PP and defensively, though, won't log the minutes he used to. They will contend for the Pacific Division with DAL, finish no worse than 5th and then it's another playoff adventure in Sharkland, IMO.

I think one team you have as a playoff team that im not so sure of is COL. I think they have major question marks. They lost a lot in the offseason and signed about nobody. And you laugh about Jeff Finger, but he was really a solid player for them and will be missed as will Brunette who didn't miss a single game in 3 years with COL. And chipped in about 60-70 points a year. They have an aging Sakic and it remains to be seen whether or not he can make it through the grind of a full season. And come on, Darcy Tucker and Andrew Raycroft as your big signings. Neither of those guys are worth a ****, IMO, as upgrades. Then you have Foote and Smyth who are getting up there in years.

I just think that the division is tough and i think that EDM and CHI are playoff teams this year and have more upside than the AVS. So with CAL, ANA, SAN, DAL, DET....that leaves one spot open IMO between COL, MIN, PHX and NAS. Not saying they won't make it but it will be a grind and i wouldn't be surprised to see PHX crawl into that 8 hole if they get solid goaltending again and the younger players don't drop off.

I agree on LAK, STL and VAN being not close. CBJ is always the mystery team. They always seem so close and then never end up being there in the end. Probably another 11th place finish for them.

here is my Western order of finish:

1) DET
2) SAN
3) CAL
4) DAL
5) ANA
6) CHI
7) EDM
8) COL, PHX, MIN or NAS. Honestly, whatever of those teams has the best goaltending will make it in IMO. If COL can find goaltending in Raycroft or Budjai and stay healthy i lean to them. MIN has a very good chance of slipping in here, especially if Brunette can bring some offense to that team. Though, they still have nobody to play center, they did get Bergeron and Zdlicky and will be solid on the blue line and in net. Crapshoot for 8th, IMO

still looking at the eastern conference............

Angelus · #10 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf

Yeah...he had good numbers last year, and looks to get a lot of starts this year with Tellqvist as his backup...but my concern is the Coyotes defence...they traded 2 of their top 4 guys to Florida for Jokinen.

If you want in on the pool shoot me an email...it usually has over a hundred people.

I'm definitely interested...how can I get your email?

JohnnyMapleLeaf · #11 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 03:42 PM

FF....San Jose is more of a hunch...I have them dropping off a bit, although they likely still make the bottom end of the playoffs.

I just think that is a team that is on the back end of success with their core players. After Thornton...who is going to have a monster year? 1st liner Michalek is a decent player but more of a 2nd line winger. Marleau has dropped from 86 to 78 to 48 points the last three years, and can't be given away. Cheechoo has fallen off the map. I do not think SJ is deep with guys like Clowe, Setoguchi, Torrey Mitchell, Joe Pavelski, Roenick, Marcel Goc and Mike Greer filling out their 2/3/4 lines. Clowe and Setoguchi the only guys with limited upside.

On their defence...Blake is a decent pickup, but definitely not the player he was now at 39 years old..and he's going to log alot of minutes. I'm not sold on Boyle either...a good player, but coming off an injury plagued season, and a perennial minus player. They have great goaltending, agreed. The West is a monster conference, and I think they slip a bit.

As for Colorado...yeah, they could be in tough. Although I like Sakic coming back...he is still a point per game player, and gives them a 1-2 punch down the middle with Stastny that is very good. Stastny could be in for a huge year. Wolski and Svatos good youngsters. Smyth, Tucker and Hedjuk will be OK. They have Foote on defence for a full year, and a pretty deep defence. John-Michael Liles, Brett Clark, Ruslan Salei, Scott Hannan, Adam Foote, Jordan Leopold. Not bad. Budaj is definitely the wildcard on the team. But yea...West is very deep as usual so they might be in tough. Give'em 8th IMO.

1) DET
2) EDM
3) DAL
4) CHI
5) CAL
6) ANA
7) SAN
8) COL
9) PHX
10)MIN
11)NAS
12)VAN
13)LAK
14)CLB
15)STL

JohnnyMapleLeaf · #12 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 04:05 PM

Huge balance of power comparing the East to the West...once again the East is much weaker. Even more-so than last year. Essentially in the East I have Buffalo and Tampa replacing Ottawa and Boston in the playoffs. But I agree Tampa is very much a wildcard..and it could easily be Boston's spot.

The Senators were one of the worst teams in the league the 2nd half of last season, and managed to get worse IMO. They lost 2 of their top 3 Dmen - Redden and Meszaros replaced with Kuba and Jason Smith. They have a new coach and the unstable Gerber in net. They are essentially still a one-line team, and to make the playoffs they will need Fisher/Vermette to have huge years as well as healthy seasons from the big three of Heatley/Alffie/Spezza...which rarely happens.

1) PIT
2) WAS
3) MON
4) PHI
5) NYR
6) BUF
7) NJD
8) TBL
9) BOS
10)OTT
11)FLO
12)CAR
13)ATL
14)TOR
15)NYI

FlyersFan · #13 (**permalink**) 09-22-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf

Huge balance of power comparing the East to the West...once again the East is much weaker. Even more-so than last year. Essentially in the East I have Buffalo and Tampa replacing Ottawa and Boston in the playoffs. But I agree Tampa is very much a wildcard..and it could easily be Boston's spot.

The Senators were one of the worst teams in the league the 2nd half of last season, and managed to get worse IMO. They lost 2 of their top 3 Dmen - Redden and Meszaros replaced with Kuba and Jason Smith. They have a new coach and the unstable Gerber in net. They are essentially still a one-line team, and to make the playoffs they will need Fisher/Vermette to have huge years as well as healthy seasons from the big three of Heatley/Alffie/Spezza...which rarely happens.

1) PIT
2) WAS
3) MON
4) PHI
5) NYR
6) BUF
7) NJD
8) TBL
9) BOS
10)OTT
11)FLO
12)CAR
13)ATL
14)TOR
15)NYI

Can't disagree with a ton there, but i do disagree on OTT. I think they have better than 10th place talent and i think they had a lot of issues last year in the locker room and on the ice that contributed to that melt down. Redden stunk the past few years and i don't see him as much of a loss, IMO. He wasn't the player he was 3 or 4 years ago. They definitely have questions on the back end but i think they are solid up front, especially on the PP. Im also not sold on BUF being a 6th place team. They don't have a #1 defenseman IMO and didn't do anything to upgrade a team that finished 10th....and i don't see anyone ahead of them falling down to let them slip into the playoffs. I think they are on the outside looking in again this year. But OTT and BUF are the 2 teams that i think are the biggest questionmarks in the East IMO.

I also think that the Patrick Division (refuse to call it anything else) is wide open. PIT didn't run away with it last year and they haven't upgraded anything. I do lean to them to win it but PHI, NYR and NJD will all be on their heels IMO. That is the best division in the East by far, IMO. Southeast should be contracted. Put WAS back in the Patrick Division, Carolina in the North and flush ATL, TAM and FLA.

1) PIT (slight lean)
2) WAS (because they should pick up a ton of points in an awful division)
3) MON
4) PHI
5) NYR
6) NJD
7) OTT
8) TAM

outside looking in are BUF, CAR and BOS......NYI, TOR, FLA and ATL i expect to be just awful.

JML- it will be interesting at season's end to look back on this and see on teams like SAN, OTT, BUF where we seem to have a difference of opinion. I definitely think SAN has better than 7th place talent, though. I can see BUF sliding in at 8 before i see SAN finishing 7th.