Yes I Want a Change

[Fish2006]

Originally Posted by Skinsfan

A couple of points:

A) Your going to have an even larger Democrat majority in congress.. meaning.... no more unjust wars....

B) You argue that the national debt is a problem (which it is).... yet placing a Dem in the White House with a Dem congress is a recipe for higher spending... actually, as we have found, a Rep pres with a Rep congress is a recipe for higher spending.... Truly, the best scenario is off-setting influences of power. History bears that out at an alarming rate. The bottom line is this: Presidents are extremely slow to veto BAD LAWS that are passed to him by his own party.... And let's not forget... it's CONGRESS that has the largest impact on the Economy... not the president (even though the Olberman's of the world would have you think otherwise)... The JUNK SPENDING you refer to would have to come from a Congress that, by all reports, is set to have 60 of the 100 senatorial seats in the Democrats control.

C) Green energy initiatives by Obama can't be funded if he is taxing the very companies that can provide the technology and increasing the capgains tax, which disincentivizes wealthy individuals/companies from funding it (why the hell hasn't the demcoratic congress re-signed the tax credit for wind energy? The last time the credit lapsed it resulted in something like a 75% decline in alternate energy research and development, if i remember correctly).

D) What is wrong with Palin's desire to have creationism taught along side evolution? Don't get me wrong.... I'm not high on creationism myself.... at least, not without incorporating evolution as the "vehicle" of the creator. But what is WRONG with teaching them side by side? The whole concept of SCIENCE (you know, the subject which Evolution is a subset up) is that you line up your possibilities, collect your facts, and objectively make assessments. What is so wrong with presenting all of the competing theories (that is all they are... THEORIES) to students and letting them draw their own conclusions? It sounds awfully defensive, to me, for people to want to prevent the teaching of creationism.... Afterall, if you are so sure that
evolution is, in fact, the correct theory.... then what are you scared of? The facts should speak for themself, no?

re:Creationism, a basic law of science is that you have to be able to validate your findings. If we are going to teach that theory, then, as far as I am concerned, you have to teach the theory that the world was created by a Giant Spaghetti Monster too, because I have exactly as much evidence as the creationists do, namely, zero. At some point, you have to draw the line and say that maybe we will let faith be just that, allowing that to be the domain of the church, and leave school to teaching actual science.

The problem is that fundamentalists want to go so far as to have the Bible be a frickin textbook in school. Holy Batman!

As for green energy, people are falling all over themselves, even on the right, to incentivize it, everything from elimination of cap gains for startups, to special tax credits, to prizes for whomever can develop an efficient car. Given the recent runup in oil, I am pretty sure we get that regardless of who gets in. Even here, were most of us have admittedly pretty different views on things overall, it seems like we would mostly agree with that. Being against green energy right now is almost like being against cute puppies :)

You know, you are right to some degree about seperated power. No, I take that back, you are exactly right about that. But rare is the occasion where you get someone in the white house that hasn't been whoring himself to lobbyists in the path to get there in a huge way. I saw Obama tell guys in Detroit that no, we do have to raise CAFE standards, even though he needs to win Michigan. He spoke up for merit pay systems in schools on his way up that seriously pissed off the teachers union (one reason they went to heavy for Hillary, I might add). Now, if he had spoken out against the idiots that think that all our gas is going to come from Corn in Iowa, it would be the trifecta - sadly, electoral politics got in the way of that. But even on that front, popular reaction to escalating food prices might solve that. My point? I would like to see, just once in my lifetime, what happens when someone who is at least a slightly less whorish whore gets in there. McCain isn't it. Obama is at least closer to the ideal there.

[dananderson32]

Originally Posted by Skinsfan

WTF? Are you some kind of homogay?

She gets me going.....

im an anti-gun fan myself (don't worry i won't steal your gun or bible) but besides that a girl with a gun when it comes to that time of the month i don't want any girl knowing how to use a gun

[dananderson32]

Originally Posted by Fish2006

re:Creationism, a basic law of science is that you have to be able to validate your findings. If we are going to teach that theory, then, as far as I am concerned, you have to teach the theory that the world was created by a Giant Spaghetti Monster too, because I have exactly as much evidence as the creationists do, namely, zero. At some point, you have to draw the line and say that maybe we will let faith be just that, allowing that to be the domain of the church, and leave school to teaching actual science.

agree 100%

[Skinsfan]

I saw that same Obama tell people in Ohio that NAFTA and Free Trade were to blame for them losing their manufacturing jobs (even though job/industry "rotation" has been happening since the advent of capitalism)... he promised them he would restructure or eliminate NAFTA (even though the manufacturing jobs are going to China)... what he DIDN'T tell those pople in Ohio is that the elimination of free trade programs such as NAFTA would result in food prices moving upwards 200-300 percent very quickly (some economists argue it would be almost instant).... Obama loves to put the "worker hat" on people but refuses to put the "consumer hat" on people... what does that remind you of? I guess I'm just surprised that this Country went toe to toe with communism for roughly 50 years, and now we seem more than willing to open the front door of the white house to them.

[Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by dananderson32

im an anti-gun fan myself (don't worry i won't steal your gun or bible) but besides that a girl with a gun when it comes to that time of the month i don't want any girl knowing how to use a gun

you know we cling to our guns and our bibles, right? Would rather cling to guns and bibles rather than hammers and sickles.

[dananderson32]

Originally Posted by Skinsfan

you know we cling to our guns and our bibles, right? Would rather cling to guns and bibles rather than hammers and sickles.

i cling to my shovel and salt in the winter time so i guess i really can't complain

[Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Fish2006

re:Creationism, a basic law of science is that you have to be able to validate your findings. If we are going to teach that theory, then, as far as I am concerned, you have to teach the theory that the world was created by a Giant Spaghetti Monster too, because I have exactly as much evidence as the creationists do, namely, zero. At some point, you have to draw the line and say that maybe we will let faith be just that, allowing that to be the domain of the church, and leave school to teaching actual science.

Well... we teach our students that we were attacked in the gulf of tonkin which got us into the vietnam war... as it turns out, there was never any validation of that since IT NEVER HAPPENED (recently revealed by... i forget who... but he was a high up military general/admiral back then).... anyhow... that's not science... so it's not a good point... just wanted to throw that out there.

No, you are correct about that basic law of science... but at some point you have to cede to the will/beliefs of the masses, no? At least when it is overwhelming? A poll in 2004 showed that 55% of all Americans believe that God created humans in their present form and a further 27% believe that Humans evolved, but that God guided the process (in other words, God CREATED evolution).... that's 82% of Americans that, in one way or the other, believe in Creationism.... 13% believe that humans evolved and god dit NOT guide the process.... Not sure what happened to the other 5% lol.... anyhow, here is the link:

Poll: Creationism Trumps Evolution, Most Americans Do Not Believe Human Beings Evolved - CBS News

[Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by dananderson32

i cling to my shovel and salt in the winter time so i guess i really can't complain

good for you... i cling to my beer and my woman

[Fish2006]

Originally Posted by Skinsfan

I saw that same Obama tell people in Ohio that NAFTA and Free Trade were to blame for them losing their manufacturing jobs (even though job/industry "rotation" has been happening since the advent of capitalism)... he promised them he would restructure or eliminate NAFTA (even though the manufacturing jobs are going to China)... what he DIDN'T tell those pople in Ohio is that the elimination of free trade programs such as NAFTA would result in food prices moving upwards 200-300 percent very quickly (some economists argue it would be almost instant).... Obama loves to put the "worker hat" on people but refuses to put the "consumer hat" on people... what does that remind you of? I guess I'm just surprised that this Country went toe to toe with communism for roughly 50 years, and now we seem more than willing to open the front door of the white house to them.

Come on, thats not fair, everyone knows at that point he was trying to win Ohio :p

Having studied Soviet style socialism in college, personally, I am happy with neither capitalism nor socialism. The former results in the accumulation of power the longer you do it such that the system is corrupt, and the other is socialism :)

More seriously, I struggle with this one. No incentives mean you end up with nobody doing anything, cause without incentives, nobody will pick up shit jobs voluntarily. Nothing but cash incentives means power accumulates in the hands of too few, making government perform for capital and not for people. Karl Marx got that half right, which is why every generation results in fewer large organizations running everything - the well known concentration of capital.

I don't know the answer. I am reading about a concept called social capitalism, a concept coined by an Indian guy Mohammed Yunus, where companies take their profits and reinvest them in social goals rather than dividends back to shareholders. Apparently, these entities called Grameen entities are quite popular in India, where banks under this charter do a lot of microlending to very poor people.

My head hurts. I need a beer :)

[homedawg]

Originally Posted by dananderson32

im an anti-gun fan myself (don't worry i won't steal your gun or bible) but besides that a girl with a gun when it comes to that time of the month i don't want any girl knowing how to use a gun

anti-gun fan, Why? Because of the crimes commited with the use of guns? I have a right to bear arms, do the criminals?

[homedawg]

Originally Posted by Skinsfan

good for you... i cling to my beer and my woman

Give me a beer and a woman with a gun!

[dananderson32]

Originally Posted by homedawg

anti-gun fan, Why? Because of the crimes commited with the use of guns? I have a right to bear arms, do the criminals?

ok let me try to say what i was trying to say before i don't like guns not a fan of them at all, yes i know you have the right to bear arms HD, just not a fan of guns maybe i shouldn't have said anti-gun but more not a fan of guns in general

[homedawg]

Originally Posted by dananderson32

ok let me try to say what i was trying to say before i don't like guns not a fan of them at all, yes i know you have the right to bear arms HD, just not a fan of guns maybe i shouldn't have said anti-gun but more not a fan of guns in general

How do we protect ourselves from the criminals with guns? With a show shovel?

[dananderson32]

Originally Posted by homedawg

How do we protect ourselves from the criminals with guns? With a show shovel?

now your talking in my area of expertise no in all seriousness i wish guns didn't exist at all

[Skinsfan]

My father-in-law (a proud owner of dozens of guns - he's a collector) has an interesting take on guns.... he once was walking on a street and saw a bunch of older ladies (in their 70s, he said) holding some sort of protest against the NRA or something like that.... so, he walks up to them and asks them a pointed question: "If a criminal breaks into your house and intends to kill you, how would you rather die? With one bullet to your head or 100 stabs with a knife?"

They told him they had never thought of it that way....

Remember that when you're drawing conclusions as to the usefulness of guns in our society.... here's another.... I would imagine that we are the most heavily armed civilian population in the world by a longshot.... ain't nobody invading our fucking country.