Last nights debate

[BoKnows]

maybe a rush into war with a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and drum up some reasoning to dumb the American public into believing they were involved in 9/11 and needed to be taken care of and sending Powell as the scape goat to the UN

Another very clueless statment, but I actually like reading them as it reaffirms my belief that the base of the left is oh so......ah nevermind:laughing:

[BoKnows]

ah yes the socialized health care argument whats next that Obama is a communist also ................get back to me when your VP has actually read the constitution and knows her duties

Nice retort....:laughing: That old socialized health care argument...he is not a communist but a socialist. If you understood what socialized health care meant you would understand why it is an important issue and the effects it would have not only on America, but the Dr. as well. Maybe as a little field trip for info next time you go to your Dr. ask him why he thinkssocialized health care is a bad idea...and then maybe the light bulb will go off. :bang:

[BIGBALLER]

and this idea that people look in on this country with a vengeance (besides terrorist) is laughable most countries look at us as a joke and that we have our heads in our ass .............were so far behind on education, health care, wages and the inability to stay up with the cost of living, a high poverty rate etc......

I'm sorry Dan I keep forgetting your age. You stated we are behind on health care to other countries and I showed you that we are NOT unless you have experienced these wait times. And about the VP comment I really believe we have greater issues concerning our country then if our VP is going to try and get in there and help with making policy changes.

[dananderson32]

ah yes the socialized health care argument whats next that Obama is a communist also ................get back to me when your VP has actually read the constitution and knows her duties

[BIGBALLER]

Dan before you buy into single-payer health care systems like Canada's and the UK's, you might want to do a bit of research. Fraser Institute annually publishes "Waiting Your Turn."
Wait times for neurosurgery were 31.7 WEEKS, orthopedic surgery 40.3 WEEKS, oncology 4.9 WEEKS This institute is based in Vancouver, British Columbia. Again the website is fraserinstitute.org



Reforming the US health care system
McCain’s plan shows more promise than Obama’s
John C. Goodman
Health care reform seems poised to
take center stage in the upcoming presidential
election in the United States.
Not surprisingly, American presidential
hopefuls Barack Obama and John Mc-
Cain have proposed radically different
approaches to health care reform. Of
the two, it is McCain’s proposal that
would completely replace the current
system with a fairer, more efficient one,
providing a much better chance of insuring
the uninsured and controlling
health costs.
The Obama plan
A key goal of Barack Obama’s health
proposal is “universal coverage.” Yet, in
contrast to Hillary Clinton, Obama’s
plan would not require individuals to
purchase coverage, other than for their
children. Although Obama’s plan would
create new ways for people to obtain
health insurance, based on reasonable
assumptions the number of uninsured
would rise, not fall.
Taxing labor
Obama’s plan would subject all employers
to a “pay-or-play” mandate, imposing
a tax on those who do not provide health
insurance for their employees. Following
a recent Commonwealth Fund analysis
that many believe reflects Obama’s
objectives (Schoen et al., 2008), employers
would be forced to pay at least 75%
of the premium for a minimum benefits
package. Failing that, employers would
have to pay an additional 7% payroll tax
of up to $1.25 per hour per employee. Basic
economics implies that such a payroll
tax would be almost completely borne
by workers. Thus, Obama’s criticism
of Hillary Clinton applies to himself as
well: he would try to force people to buy
something they cannot afford, and then
tax them when they don’t buy it, leaving
them worse off than before.
Encouraging employers to drop
health insurance coverage
Those who do not get insurance through
an employer would be able to buy it
through a National Health Insurance Exchange.
Under the Commonwealth proposal,
the subsidized premium would
be limited to 5% of income for lowincome
families and 10% for everyone
else. Given an average cost of employerbased
coverage of about $12,000 for a
family (KFFHRET, 2007), families with
incomes of up to about $63,000 would
be better off if their employers dropped
their current health plan and paid them
higher wages instead, paid Obama’s payor-
play tax (along with income and payroll
taxes), and let employees use their
additional after-tax income to buy their
own insurance in the Exchange.
Encouraging the healthy to be
uninsured
Why pay expensive premiums for health
insurance if you do not have any health
problems? Insurers participating in the
Exchange would be required to sell policies
to all comers (guaranteed issue), and
charge the healthy the same premium
they charge the sick (community rating).
This would give people a perverse incentive
to avoid buying insurance and paying
premiums until they get sick.
Encouraging others to overinsure
Obama’s plan would require health plans
to include a package of minimum benefits,
but apparently there would be no
maximum. Once people reached their
maximum premium limit, the marginal
cost of buying additional coverage would
be zero, creating perverse incentives for
people to over-insure at the taxpayers’
expense.
Encouraging special interests
Special interest lobbyists have pushed
for state regulations that would require
insurers to cover all manner of non-essential
services, including acupuncture,
in-vitro fertilization, and marriage counseling.
The resulting premiums would
price as many as one-quarter of the uninsured
out of the market. Obama’s federally
imposed minimum benefits package
would attract all manner of special
interests trying to influence the details
of the package.
Substituting government
insurance for private insurance
Obama would also expand enrollment in
Medicaid and the State Children’s Health
Insurance Plan (SCHIP). Obama health
adviser David Cutler estimates that ev36Fraser
36 Forum 09/08 36 FRASER america
ance. Today, monthly health insurance
premiums can vary by hundreds of dollars
from state to state with much of that
difference being driven by state regulations
and coverage mandates.
Helping the middle class
The McCain plan would provide much
more help to low- and average-income
families than the current system does.
These families would get just as much
tax relief to purchase health insurance as
the very rich. Under the current system,
families earning more than $100,000 a
year get four times as much tax relief
as families earning $25,000 or less. The
biggest subsidy goes to those who least
need it, and who probably would have
purchased insurance anyway. By contrast,
Obama’s plan would continue the
current practice of giving the highest
subsidies to the rich (through the tax
system) and the poor (through spending
programs).
Encouraging cost control
McCain’s plan would subsidize the core
insurance that everyone has, leaving
them free to purchase additional coverage
with after-tax dollars. Everyone
would haveery extra dollar spent on Medicaid leads
to a 50- to 75-cent reduction in spending
on private health insurance (Cutler and
Gruber, 1996). For SCHIP, the Congressional
Budget Office projects a crowdout
rate of 25% to 50% (Duchovny and
Nelson, 2007); private estimates peg it at
60% (Gruber and Simon, 2007).
The McCain plan
Private health insurance is currently
subsidized by excluding employer-paid
premiums from income and payroll
taxes. This subsidy, which amounts to
more than $200 billion a year, is arbitrary
and unfair. For example, there is
virtually no tax relief for people who
purchase their own insurance. McCain
would replace this system with a uniform
subsidy applicable to all insurance,
regardless of how it is purchased.
Leveling the playing field
Under the McCain plan, everyone
would be treated alike, regardless of income
or job status. His proposal would
not raise taxes; nor would it lower them.
Employers would no longer be able to
buy insurance with pre-tax dollars, and
their premium payments on behalf of
workers would be taxable income to the
employees, just like wages. However, every
individual would get a $2,500 credit
($5,000 per family) to be applied dollarfor-
dollar against taxes owed. The Mc-
Cain proposal would allow people who
must buy their own insurance to receive
just as much tax relief as people who
obtain insurance through an employer.
Creating a national marketplace
The McCain plan would also allow people
to buy insurance across state lines.
This would allow people to purchase insurance
under more consumer-friendly
regulatory regimes and create a competitive,
national market for health insurance. Today, monthly health insurance
premiums can vary by hundreds of dollars
from state to state with much of that
difference being driven by state regulations
and coverage mandates.
Helping the middle class
The McCain plan would provide much
more help to low- and average-income
families than the current system does.
These families would get just as much
tax relief to purchase health insurance as
the very rich. Under the current system,
families earning more than $100,000 a
year get four times as much tax relief
as families earning $25,000 or less. The
biggest subsidy goes to those who least
need it, and who probably would have
purchased insurance anyway. By contrast,
Obama’s plan would continue the
current practice of giving the highest
subsidies to the rich (through the tax
system) and the poor (through spending
programs).
Encouraging cost control
McCain’s plan would subsidize the core
insurance that everyone has, leaving
them free to purchase additional coverage
with after-tax dollars. Everyone
would have an incentive to compare the
value of extra health benefits to the value
of other things money can buy.
The United States health care system
is in need of reform and there is no easysolution. However, McCain’s proposals
have a much better chance of controlling
costs, raising quality, and improving
access than the proposals made by any
other serious presidential contender.
References
Cutler, David M., and Jonathan Gruber
(1996). Does Public Insurance Crowd
Out Private Insurance? Quarterly Journal
of Economics 111, 2: 391–430.
Duchovny, Noelia, and Lyle Nelson (2007).
The State Children’s Health Insurance

[dananderson32]

be verrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy afraid when your potential VP doesn't know what's in the constitution for the job description and thinks she gets to work with the senate in legislation ......:puke: :puke:

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[dananderson32]

colin powell endorses Obama too because he wants to see this country get attacked once again also he doesn't know anything about foreign policy.......nahhhhhhhhh hes dumb

[dananderson32]

and this idea that people look in on this country with a vengeance (besides terrorist) is laughable most countries look at us as a joke and that we have our heads in our ass .............were so far behind on education, health care, wages and the inability to stay up with the cost of living, a high poverty rate etc......

[dananderson32]

If you were on the outside looking in with a vengeance, at the worlds most powerful nation, which candidate would you prefer? :beer2:

sure wouldn't want this guy if i lived in the US

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[homedawg]

Gallup Daily: Obama Holds Lead in Various Scenarios

World Citizens Prefer Obama to McCain by Nearly 4-to-1

If you were on the outside looking in with a vengeance, at the worlds most powerful nation, which candidate would you prefer? :beer2:

[dananderson32]

looks like the # 1 reason McCain will have toasted himself in this election is the selection of his VP as people have seen more and more right through the selection

"Palin’s qualifications to be president rank as voters’ top concern about McCain’s candidacy - ahead of continuing President Bush’s policies, enacting economic policies that only benefit the rich and keeping too high of a troop presence in Iraq."


Poll: Obama opens biggest lead over McCain - Decision '08 - MSNBC.com

[dananderson32]

be verrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy afraid when your potential VP doesn't know what's in the constitution for the job description and thinks she gets to work with the senate in legislation ........:hide: :hide:

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[dananderson32]

I wonder why Dan?

maybe a rush into war with a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and drum up some reasoning to dumb the American public into believing they were involved in 9/11 and needed to be taken care of and sending Powell as the scape goat to the UN

[dananderson32]

Of course she is a racist, I mean how dare her call our Wright, Ayers, and the other nutjob priest that is a spiritual advisor to Obama. This has nothing to do with how well he can lead or has anything to do with character. I hope this racist bitch burns in hell for her comments. The nerve!:thumbs:

maybe if you took the time to view the clip instead of rushing to some conclusion shes talking about her fellow congressional representatives

[BoKnows]

add another racist pig to the McCain group :puke: :puke: and full of false lies shocking from the GOP..........anyone who votes this crazy racist back into a congressional seat needs their head examined

Of course she is a racist, I mean how dare her call our Wright, Ayers, and the other nutjob priest that is a spiritual advisor to Obama. This has nothing to do with how well he can lead or has anything to do with character. I hope this racist bitch burns in hell for her comments. The nerve!:thumbs: