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JoePa: Kent State history

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  • JoePa: Kent State history

    Hey Joepa, my prof was discussing the Vietnam war the other day, and he brought up the protests/shootings at Kent State. Do you have any insight or perspective to this story, or was this way before your time?

    I certainly felt like an idiot not ever hearing of this story (even if it was before my time, but has relevance one way or another to me). But I made it up when he asked if anyone has seen Animal House and I was just about the only one that raised my hand. I mean I know I'm one of the older pupils by a couple of years in my class, but wtf do these kids watch these days? Sploogebob Pyramid Pants? :pud:

    "Schooly D is fat cake yo."
    -Big Pimpin-

  • #2
    Actually know alot about it Q! Just about every KSU alum knows the story really well, but I'll lay odds, and pretty step ones at that, your prof doesn't know about the guy in the attached article who holds the key to the burning questions of how the shootings started, etc. I am still fascinated by this story and the coverups, etc. and how Terry Norman managed to escape public notice until now. I graduated from Kent 15+ years after the shootings and never heard of him until November 2010.

    I can send you links to a bunch of stories about May 4, 1970 if you'd like.....ask Kevin for my e-mail if you still don't have it!

    There are plenty of sites around at Kent for information.

    Batman: "If you can't spend it, money's just a lot of worthless paper, isn't it?" :phew:


    • #3
      You'd be surprised to find that most of the riots at college campuses and towns around college campuses was not caused by students but bikers groups and the like. Let me know what else ya would like to know!
      Batman: "If you can't spend it, money's just a lot of worthless paper, isn't it?" :phew:


      • #4
        id like to read those stories too joe


        • #5
          Cool Daws.....just ask Kevin for my e-mail!

          Also, I didn't post the story link.....outside link with lots of info and embedded in the story are really cool photos and actual video footage of the scene that day. Didn't want to violate the trust of the forum by posting the link even though it has nothing to do with wagering, etc. it is the rule and good one at that!
          Batman: "If you can't spend it, money's just a lot of worthless paper, isn't it?" :phew:


          • #6
            Originally posted by joepa66 View Post
            Also, I didn't post the story link.....outside link with lots of info and embedded in the story are really cool photos and actual video footage of the scene that day. Didn't want to violate the trust of the forum by posting the link even though it has nothing to do with wagering, etc. it is the rule and good one at that!
            that and you'd be the first mod ever to ban yourself! eegads. :laughing:

            good stuff, can't wait to read it

            "Schooly D is fat cake yo."
            -Big Pimpin-


            • #7
              Here's time line from May 1 - May 4:

              KENT STATE 1970: Description of Events May 1 through May 4

              Last Updated on Sunday, 28 March 2010 11:22
              Written by May 4 Task Force Kent State University students Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:29

              On April 30th, President Nixon announced on national television that a massive American-South Vietnamese troop offensive into Cambodia was in progress. "We take these actions," Nixon said, "not for the purpose of expanding the war into Cambodia, but for the purpose of ending the war in Vietnam, and winning the just peace we all desire."

              These were familiar words to a war-weary public. Some felt that this decision was essential for attaining a "just peace" and sustaining America's credibility in the world. Yet others, particularly students, believed that this action represented an escalation of the war and a return to ex-President Johnson's earlier hopes for a military victory. As the fires from the artillery began to burn in Cambodia, a raging fire of protest spread across the United States.

              At Kent State University, the reaction to Nixon's announcement was similar to that of other campuses across the nation.

              FRIDAY MAY 1, 1970

              At noon about 500 students gathered around the Victory Bell on the Commons, the traditional site for rallies. A group of history students, who had organized the protest, buried a copy of the Constitution, which they claimed had been murdered when US troops were sent into Cambodia without a declaration of war by Congress.

              Three hours later, Black United Students held a rally, which had been scheduled before Nixon had made his announcement. Some 400 people gathered to hear black students talk about recent disorders with the Ohio National Guard on their campus. Word spread quickly that another rally, one to oppose the invasion of Cambodia, was scheduled for Monday, May 4, at noon.

              Friday night, one of the first warm evenings of the spring, several hundred students gathered in downtown Kent in an area with a number of bars, known as "the Strip," on North Water Street. A spontaneous anti-war rally began in the street. Twice, while the rally was in progress, passing police cruisers were hit with beer bottles. Afterwards, police stayed away from the area.

              Meanwhile, more people were leaving the bars. Many in the crowd chanted anti-war slogans, and a bonfire was set in the street. The crowd blocked traffic for about an hour and then moved toward the center of town. Some members of the crowd began to break windows. Primarily "political targets" were attacked, including banks, loan companies, and utility companies.

              After being informed of the events, Kent Mayor Leroy Satrom declared a "state of emergency," and arbitrarily ordered all of the bars closed. Kent police, along with the mayor, then confronted the crowd. The riot act was read and police proceeded to clear the area. People inside the bars were ordered to leave, forcing hundreds more into the streets.

              The crowd was herded toward the campus with tear gas and knight sticks, which was in the opposite direction in which some of them lived. Fourteen persons, mostly stragglers, were arrested. About $5000 in damage was done as 43 windows were broken--28 in one bank.

              SATURDAY, MAY 2, 1970

              On the morning of May 2, some KSU students assisted with the downtown cleanup. Rumors of radical activities were widespread, and KSU's ROTC building was believed to be the target of militant students that evening. During the Vietnam War, students on many college campuses opposed the presence of ROTC and often were successful in forcing the removal of ROTC from their campuses.

              A dusk-to-dawn curfew was imposed on the city of Kent, and students were restricted to the campus. At 5 p.m., shortly after assessing the situation, Mayor Satrom alerted the Ohio National Guard. KSU officials were unaware of this decision.

              Shortly after 8 p.m., about 300 people gathered on the Commons, where a few anti-war slogans were chanted and a few brief speeches given. An impromptu march began and participants headed towards the dormitories to gain strength. Large numbers of people joined the march. The now 2,000 marchers swarmed the hill overlooking the Commons and crossed the Commons. Then they surrounded the ROTC building, an old wooden World War II barracks which was scheduled to be demolished. Windows were broken and a few persons eventually set the building on fire.

              Plain-clothed police who were standing nearby made no attempt to stop the students at this point. Firemen arrived on the scene but their actions were abandoned because some of the crowd attacked the firemen and slashed their hoses. The blaze quickly died out. The firemen eventually regained control and the fire died out. The building was ignited again. This time, however, firemen arrived with massive police protection. Police surrounded the building and dispersed the students with tear gas. The firemen again got the fire under control.

              The crowd then moved to the front of the campus. The students retreated to the Commons to find the ROTC building smoldering at both ends. Within minutes, the building was fully ablaze.

              The crowd then assembled on the wooded hillside beside the commons and watched as the building burned. Many shouted anti- war slogans. In the first two weeks of May, thirty ROTC buildings would be burned nationwide.

              Armed with tear gas and drawn bayonets, the guard pursued students, protesters and bystanders alike, into dormitories and other campus buildings. Some stones were thrown and at least one student was bayoneted. The question of who set the fire that destroyed ROTC building has never been satisfactorily answered by any investigative body.

              SUNDAY, MAY 3, 1970

              May 3 was a relatively quiet day. By now, however, the campus was fully occupied by Ohio National Guard troops, and armored personnel carriers were stationed throughout the campus. Although some students and guardsmen fraternized, the feeling, for the most part, was one of mutual hostility.

              That morning, Ohio Governor James Rhodes, who was running for US Senate, arrived in Kent and along with city officials, held a news conference. Rhodes, running on a "law and order" platform, attempted to use this opportunity to garner votes in the primary election, which was only two days away.

              In a highly inflammatory speech, Rhodes claimed that the demonstrations at Kent were the handiwork of a highly organized band of revolutionaries who were out to "destroy higher education in Ohio." These protesters, Rhodes declared, were "the worst type of people we harbor in America, worse than the brown shirts and the communist element...we will use whatever force necessary to drive them out of Kent!"

              Later that evening, a National Guard commander would tell his troops that Ohio law gave them the right to shoot if necessary. This merely served to heighten guardsmen's hostility toward students.

              Around 8 p.m., a crowd gathered on the Commons near the Victory Bell. As the group increased in size, Guard officials announced the immediate enforcement of a new curfew. The crowd refused to disperse. At 9 p.m. the Ohio Riot act was read. Tear gas was fired from helicopters hovering overhead, and the Guard dispersed the crowd from the area. Students attempted to demonstrate that the curfew was unnecessary by peacefully marching towards the town, but were met by guardsmen.

              Students then staged a spontaneous sit-in at the intersection of East Main and Lincoln Streets and demanded that Mayor Satrom and KSU president Robert White speak with them about the Guard's presence on campus. Assured that this demand would be met, the crowd agreed to move from the street onto the front lawn of campus.

              The guard then betrayed the students and announced that the curfew would go into effect immediately. Helicopters and tear gas were used to disperse the demonstrators. As the crowd attempted to escape, some were bayoneted and clubbed by guardsmen. Students were again pursued and prodded back to their dormitories. Tear gas innundated the campus, and helicopters with searchlights hovered overhead all night.

              MONDAY, MAY 4, 1970

              At 11 a.m., about 200 students gathered on the Commons. Earlier that morning, state and local officials had met in Kent. Some officials had assumed that Gov. Rhodes had declared Martial Law to be in effect--but he had not. In fact, martial law was not officially declared until May 5. Nevertheless, the National Guard resolved to disperse any assembly.

              As noon approached, the size of the crowd increased to 1,500. Some were merely spectators, while others had gathered specifically to protest the invasion of Cambodia and the continued presence of the National Guard on the campus. Upon orders of Ohio's Assistant Adjutant General Robert Canterbury, an army jeep was driven in front of the assembled students. The students were told by means of a bullhorn to disperse immediately. Students responded with jeers and chants.

              When the students refused to disperse, Gen. Canterbury ordered the guardsmen to disperse them. Approximately 116 men, equipped with loaded M-1 rifles and tear gas, formed a skirmish line towards the students. Aware of bayonet injuries of the previous evening, students immediately ran away from the attacking National Guardsmen. Retreating up Blanket Hill, some students lobbed tear gas canisters back at the advancing troops, and one straggler was attacked with clubs.

              The Guard, after clearing the Commons, marched over the crest of the hill, firing tear gas and scattering the students into a wider area. The Guard then continued marching down the hill and onto a practice football field. For approximately 10 minutes, the guard stayed in this position. During this time, tear gas canisters were thrown back and forth from the Guard's position to a small group of students n the Prentice Hall parking lot, about 100 yards away. Some students responded to the guardsmen's attack by throwing stones. Guardsmen also threw stones at the students. But because of the distance, most stones from both parties fell far short of their targets. The vast majority of students, however, were spectators on the veranda of Taylor Hall.

              While on the practice field, several members of Troop G, which would within minutes fire the fatal volley, knelt and aimed their weapons at the students in the parking lot. Gen. Canterbury concluded that the crowd had been dispersed and ordered the Guard to march back to the commons area. Some members of Troop G then huddled briefly.

              After reassembling on the field, the Guardsmen seemed to begin to retreat as they marched back up the hill, retracing their previous steps. Members of Troop G, while advancing up the hill, continued to glance back to the parking lot, where the most militant and vocal students were located. The students assumed the confrontation was over. Many students began to walk to their next classes.

              As the guard reached the crest of the Blanket Hill, near the Pagoda of Taylor Hall, about a dozen members of Troop G simultaneously turned around 180 degrees, aimed and fired their weapons into the crowd in the Prentice Hall parking lot. The 1975 civil trials proved that there was a verbal command to fire.

              A total of 67 shots were fired in 13 seconds. Four students: Allison Krause, Jeffrey Miller, Sandra Scheuer and William Schroeder were killed. Nine students were wounded: Joseph Lewis, John Cleary, Thomas Grace, Robbie Stamps, Donald Scott MacKenzie, Alan Canfora, Douglas Wrentmore, James Russell and Dean Kahler. Of the wounded, one was permanently paralyzed, and several were seriously maimed. All were full-time students.
              Batman: "If you can't spend it, money's just a lot of worthless paper, isn't it?" :phew:


              • #8
                1970 Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Report
                1970 FBI report

                Last Updated on Friday, 26 March 2010 20:24
                Written by Alan Canfora, KM4C Director Thursday, 16 March 2006 18:28

                U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
                1970 SUMMARY of
                FBI REPORTS
                (truthful excerpts):

                The FBI investigated our Kent State rebellion and tragedy of May 1-4, 1970, for nearly two months into the summer of 1970. Hundreds of eyewitnesses were interviewed.

                Many lies, exaggerations, half-truths and mis-truths have been circulated since 1970. Even the FBI failed to learn all of the truths about Kent State in May of 1970. They got some conclusions right and some wrong.

                However, the FBI and the US Justice Department did determine certain absolute truths regarding Kent State in May of 1970.

                Here are exact quotes from the 35-page summary of the FBI investigation after nearly two months of intensive investigation by dozens of FBI agents re: Kent State, May 1-4, 1970.

                These are the generally truthful quotations from the 1970 US Justice Department investigation summary which reveal the fact that the May 4, 1970, Kent State massacre was "...unnecessary, unwarranted and inexcusable":

                ON MAY 4, 1970,

                *** below are exact, basically truthful, US Justice Department conclusions as indicated within quotation marks:

                "...Most persons estimate that about 200-300 students were gathered around the Victory Bell on the commons with another 1,000 or so students gathered on the hill directly behind them."

                "...the crowd apparently was initially peaceful and relatively quiet."

                "...96 men of Companies A and C, 145th Infantry and of Troop G, 107th Armored Cavalry were ordered to advance. Bayonets were fixed and their weapons were "locked and loaded", with one round in the chamber...all wore gas masks. Some carried .45 pistols, most carried M-1 rifles, and a few carried shotguns loaded with 7 1/2 birdshot and double-ought buckshot."

                "...the combination of the advancing troops and the teargas forced the students to retreat."

                "...fifty-three members of Company A, 18 members of Troop G and two members of Company C, all commanded by General Canterbury and Lt. Col. Fassinger moved...pursuing the main body of students who retreated..."

                " group of students retreated to a paved parking lot south of Prentice Hall..."

                "...the Guard then moved...onto the field where it took up a position..."

                "...some of the students...then returned to within range of the Guard and began to pelt them with objects..."

                "...four Guardsmen claim they were hit with rocks at this time..."

                "...some rocks were thrown back at the students by the Guard."

                "...just prior to the time the Guard left its position on the practice field, members of Troop G were ordered to kneel and aim their weapons at the students in the parking lot south of Prentice Hall. They did so, but did not fire."

                "...the Guard was then ordered to regroup and move back up the hill past Taylor Hall."

                "...when the Guard reached the crest of Blanket Hill by the southeast corner of Taylor Hall at about 12:25pm, they faced the students following them and fired their weapons. Four students were killed and nine were wounded."

                "...the few moments immediately prior to the shootings are shrouded in confusion and highly conflicting statements. Many Guardsmen claim that they felt their lives were in danger from the students for a variety of reasons...because they were 'surrounded'...because a sniper fired at them...stones...the students 'advanced upon them in a threatening manner'..."

                "...we [the FBI] have some reason to believe that the claim by the National Guard that their lives were endangered by the students was fabricated subsequent to the event..."

                "...[a Guardsman] admitted that his life was not in danger and that he fired indiscriminantly into the crowd. He further stated that the Guardsmen had gotten together after the shooting and decided to fabricate the story that they were in danger of serious bodily harm or death from the students...the guys have been saying that we got to get together and stick to the same story, that it was our lives or them, a matter of survival. I told them I would tell the truth and couldn't get in trouble that way."

                "...also, a chaplain of Troop G spoke with many members of the National Guard and stated that they were unable to explain to him why they fired their weapons."

                "...available photographs indicate that the nearest student was 60 feet away" [at time of shootings].

                " verbal warning was given to the students immediately prior to the time the Guardsmen fired."

                " Guardsman, Sgt. McManus, stated that after the firing began, he gave an order to 'fire over their heads'".

                "...the Guardsmen were not surrounded...they could easily have continued going in the direction in which they had been going."

                " Guardsman claims he was hit with rocks immediately prior to the firing..."

                "...only one Guardsman, Lawrence Shafer, was injured on May 4, 1970, seriously enough to require any kind of medical treatment. He admits his injury was received some 10 to 15 minutes before the fatal volley was fired."

                "...there was no sniper."

                "...the great majority of Guards do not state that they were under sniper fire and many specifically state that the first shots came from the National Guardsmen."

                "...the FBI has conducted an extensive search and has found nothing to indicate that any person other than a Guardsman fired a weapon."

                " the time of the shooting, the National Guard clearly did not believe that they were being fired upon."

                " addition, no Guardsman claims he fired at a sniper or even that he fired in the direction from which he believed the sniper shot."

                "...a minimum of 54 shots were fired by a minimum of 29 of the 78 members of the National Guard at Taylor Hall in the space of approximately 13 seconds."

                " members of Troop G admit firing their weapons, but claim they did not fire at the students. Five persons interviewed in Troop G, the group of Guardsmen closest to Taylor Hall, admit firing a total of eight shots into the crowd or at a specific student."

                "...some Guardsmen had to be physically restrained from continuing to fire their weapons."

                "...Sergeant Richard Love of Company C...asserted he 'could not believe' that the others were shooting into the crowd so he lowered his weapon."

                "...when the firing began, many students began running; others hit the ground."

                " all, only two [student victims] were shot from the front. Seven students were shot from the side and four were shot from the rear."

                "...of the 13 students shot, none, so far as we know, were associated with either the disruption in Kent on Friday night, May 1, 1970, or the burning of the ROTC building on Saturday, May 2, 1970."
                Batman: "If you can't spend it, money's just a lot of worthless paper, isn't it?" :phew:


                • #9
                  Don't wanna bore everybody with all I won't post anymore stories. It is a very historic period in our country's history and very important. Those who wish to learn about the tragedy can get my e-mail and I will respond with many more links than you'll really need....But don't forget that about 10 days after Kent State there were the shootings at Jackson State where two students died and about a dozen wounded, just as significant as the **** at Kent especially since it happened on a historically black campus and reflected more restlessness of the time!
                  Last edited by joepa66; 01-27-2011, 08:22 AM.
                  Batman: "If you can't spend it, money's just a lot of worthless paper, isn't it?" :phew:


                  • #10
                    wow joepa, i remember this happening but i was a little kid at the time and didnt know all the details. that was a different world.
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                    • #11
                      just checked your profile and couldnt find your email. how can i get it? kevin has mine so you can get that from him. i would like those links.
                      mlb 2018 ytd 157-110 +42.74 units as of 10-29-18 seasons end
                      ncaaf 2018 ytd 62-54 -0.4 units as of 12-9-18
                      nfl 2018 54-79-1 -21.4 units as of 12-3-18
                      march madness 2019 24-20-1 +10.4 units as of tourney end
                      mlb 2019 348-245-3 +70.2 units as of 2019 seasons end
                      nfl 2019 54-54 -21.2 units as of seasons end
                      ncaaf 2019 34-43-1 -12.43 units as of seasons end
                      mlb 2020 ytd 100-68-1 +29.05 units as of 9-17-20
                      nfl 2020 6-8-1 -4.0 units as of 9-20-2020