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Immigration Tidbits
Sorry Kevin I just couldn't stay away LOL
First of all let me say that I realize this is a lost cause to even address it because I've found that no matter what or who, people will stick by their convictions and little can be done to sway their opinions, and its not my duty, nor anyone else's to force their beliefs, opinions, or anything on anyone else.
HOWEVER, sometimes people (including me) can gain a unique perspective and change their stance... sometimes. lol
Anyways to the subject that is immigration, I just can't help but chime in on this issue, and a disclaimer that by no means do I mean any disrespect, nor is it my job or did I need to do this but it is what it is.
1)
- I know nothing about this, but if its true, that is a lame deal, and that does make me mad.
2)
- They make no effort to learn our language because we enable this. Signs in Spanish at Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Banks, etc.... It's like when we were kids, and if our parents didn't forbid us to stay out late, forbid us from drinking beer, watching pornos, smoke, etc... If they didn't do **** and allowed us to do whatever we want, would we have done it? You bet your ass we would have.
So how is this different? I'm not a pro-let-everyone-in-the-world-come-live-in-America, but for one second think from their point of view, walk a mile in their shoes (its a beaten down cliche, but just do it). If you were an immigrant growing up in a dirt poor country, had no money, no job (or a ****ty one at that), and were desperate, and someone told you all you have to do is walk 2 days across the border to a country that has jobs that pays you 10 bucks an hour (jobs that their own citizens don't want to do), compared to your current 5 bucks a day job, wouldn't you risk a romp across the border?
And upon coming over here, the local Wal-Mart has all the food items in Spanish, the banks, the McDonalds, and any place that you would need to survive already has employees who speak Spanish, why would you make any effort to learn English?
I'm not saying that they are all devoid of fault, there IS such thing as effort, and assimilation, but when its all handed out, why make an effort?
I mean to me its like if I'm in bed with a girl, and she says she will suck my c*ck, shove her boobs in my face, and ride me until my bodily fluids have left my lower organs, and I don't have to do anything, like take her to dinner, kiss her, make foreplay, or go shopping with her, meet her parents, cuddle, or spoon her.... if a girl tells any one of you that, are you gonna take the easy way out, or are you gonna still make that effort when she said you don't need to?
Its the same thing to me, if America's stores and banks and their employees essentially say you don't have to learn English, and that they will communicate in Spanish for you, then why would you expect them to do the former?
*It ultimately comes down to the government that allows this, blaming it on people who just are taking advantage of handouts won't change anything. It also is upon the big corporations who want more money, so they put up a 5 dollar sign that makes it more comfortable for thousands of immigrants who will choose Wal-Mart to get their Milk under the sign "Leche". They see $$$, they don't see the downfall of American Culture as many so see it.
3)
Trust me they like me or you pay taxes. When I go buy toilet paper, bread, condoms, boxers, beer or q-tips, I pay sales taxes. So does everyone. That's paying taxes.
Income tax? I know this personally, and have seen this with my own eyes, immigrants who work at various slaughter houses, feedyards, construction sites, etc... whatever, they all still get paid by check. (I know this isn't 100%, but it is mostly true). And that check still gets docked FICA, etc...
and from there these same immigrants still file taxes, but there's a twist, it's obvious that it's under someone else's SS number, so essentially they pay income tax, but still don't see that tax return check. And yes I know, no tears will be shed lol over something like this, but my point is income tax is paid.
as for entrepreneurs like you FF, who are taxed for working your ass off to build a business, or anyone in an upper tax bracket being unfairly taxed for just working harder and being successful, that indeed is a raw deal. and I agree with that, then again when have you seen anyone approve of taxes? No one likes to be taxed. Only the Taxers are happy, not the Taxees.
4)
take a poll right now, and I guarantee you 90% maybe 95% of the work force at slaughter houses, feedyards, construction sites, etc...are NOT white people. Do they want those jobs? maybe, thats not my call, but the fact is, I know plenty of white people who rather work for 6 bucks an hour at Wal-Mart at 25 hours a week than go to Tyson Chicken and work for 15 bucks an hour for 40 hours a week. So while they are freeloaders to a degree (I really am not just defending illegal immigration, just making a logical case for it due to what little I know), I'd say this is some sort of contribution to society. Where would KFC or Burger King or your ability to eat beef on demand be if no one worked at slaughter plants, etc...?
5)
I completely AGREE 100%. IMO thats right on. To me its more of we've gotten to the point where we've put a face on an issue, and its Mexicans. And that does grow to a form of racism, does that mean you're racist? Absolutely not, its more of an aesthetic value thats easier to convey than the shady money driven political process that allows and enables this.
I wasn't alive to remember this, but isn't it one huge cycle? Didn't colonial British dominated citizens of American colonies that later became a young United States country shun Irish, German Immigrants? And then years later, didn't these same "immigrants" who are newly made citizens shun Italian Immigrants? Whats the difference? Only that over time, those immigrants eventually learned English right?
Well the way our government, and money hungry corporate America operates, we enable Spanish language accommodations to make an extra buck to entice Mexican consumers, then its our fault, and their fault for taking the easy way out, and not attempting to assimilate into a new country.
And sorry FF, wasn't singling you out, just that you've clearly made your stance known, and it was convenient to highlight your points, and provide my counter-arguments.
It doesn't mean you're wrong and that I'm right, I'm just posting my views, and what I have seen and know personally.
I don't agree with illegal immigration, paying for other people's freeloading, paying for someone else's medical bills, or paying for a car accident that wasn't my fault. But you know what, if I was in their shoes, I would freaking freeload all the same if it meant I could make 300 bucks a week in a country that allows me to speak my native tongue as opposed to starving in my native country making 300 bucks a year! My overall point is that its useless to place blame on those who come from disadvantaged backgrounds who are offered an easy way out when you can't blame them for taking that handout. The blame rests solely on those who enable it, corporate America and the government that looks the other way to help them make more $$.
The beauty of all of this is that it can be changed, maybe its not easy, or fast. But it can be done, it remains to be seen if that is possible or if anyone wants to do anything about it.
First of all let me say that I realize this is a lost cause to even address it because I've found that no matter what or who, people will stick by their convictions and little can be done to sway their opinions, and its not my duty, nor anyone else's to force their beliefs, opinions, or anything on anyone else.
HOWEVER, sometimes people (including me) can gain a unique perspective and change their stance... sometimes. lol
Anyways to the subject that is immigration, I just can't help but chime in on this issue, and a disclaimer that by no means do I mean any disrespect, nor is it my job or did I need to do this but it is what it is.
1)
Originally posted by Billy Barooooooo
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2)
Originally posted by FlyersFan
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So how is this different? I'm not a pro-let-everyone-in-the-world-come-live-in-America, but for one second think from their point of view, walk a mile in their shoes (its a beaten down cliche, but just do it). If you were an immigrant growing up in a dirt poor country, had no money, no job (or a ****ty one at that), and were desperate, and someone told you all you have to do is walk 2 days across the border to a country that has jobs that pays you 10 bucks an hour (jobs that their own citizens don't want to do), compared to your current 5 bucks a day job, wouldn't you risk a romp across the border?
And upon coming over here, the local Wal-Mart has all the food items in Spanish, the banks, the McDonalds, and any place that you would need to survive already has employees who speak Spanish, why would you make any effort to learn English?
I'm not saying that they are all devoid of fault, there IS such thing as effort, and assimilation, but when its all handed out, why make an effort?
I mean to me its like if I'm in bed with a girl, and she says she will suck my c*ck, shove her boobs in my face, and ride me until my bodily fluids have left my lower organs, and I don't have to do anything, like take her to dinner, kiss her, make foreplay, or go shopping with her, meet her parents, cuddle, or spoon her.... if a girl tells any one of you that, are you gonna take the easy way out, or are you gonna still make that effort when she said you don't need to?
Its the same thing to me, if America's stores and banks and their employees essentially say you don't have to learn English, and that they will communicate in Spanish for you, then why would you expect them to do the former?
*It ultimately comes down to the government that allows this, blaming it on people who just are taking advantage of handouts won't change anything. It also is upon the big corporations who want more money, so they put up a 5 dollar sign that makes it more comfortable for thousands of immigrants who will choose Wal-Mart to get their Milk under the sign "Leche". They see $$$, they don't see the downfall of American Culture as many so see it.
3)
Originally posted by FlyersFan
View Post
Income tax? I know this personally, and have seen this with my own eyes, immigrants who work at various slaughter houses, feedyards, construction sites, etc... whatever, they all still get paid by check. (I know this isn't 100%, but it is mostly true). And that check still gets docked FICA, etc...
and from there these same immigrants still file taxes, but there's a twist, it's obvious that it's under someone else's SS number, so essentially they pay income tax, but still don't see that tax return check. And yes I know, no tears will be shed lol over something like this, but my point is income tax is paid.
as for entrepreneurs like you FF, who are taxed for working your ass off to build a business, or anyone in an upper tax bracket being unfairly taxed for just working harder and being successful, that indeed is a raw deal. and I agree with that, then again when have you seen anyone approve of taxes? No one likes to be taxed. Only the Taxers are happy, not the Taxees.
4)
Originally posted by FlyersFan
View Post
5)
Originally posted by FlyersFan
View Post
I wasn't alive to remember this, but isn't it one huge cycle? Didn't colonial British dominated citizens of American colonies that later became a young United States country shun Irish, German Immigrants? And then years later, didn't these same "immigrants" who are newly made citizens shun Italian Immigrants? Whats the difference? Only that over time, those immigrants eventually learned English right?
Well the way our government, and money hungry corporate America operates, we enable Spanish language accommodations to make an extra buck to entice Mexican consumers, then its our fault, and their fault for taking the easy way out, and not attempting to assimilate into a new country.
And sorry FF, wasn't singling you out, just that you've clearly made your stance known, and it was convenient to highlight your points, and provide my counter-arguments.
It doesn't mean you're wrong and that I'm right, I'm just posting my views, and what I have seen and know personally.
I don't agree with illegal immigration, paying for other people's freeloading, paying for someone else's medical bills, or paying for a car accident that wasn't my fault. But you know what, if I was in their shoes, I would freaking freeload all the same if it meant I could make 300 bucks a week in a country that allows me to speak my native tongue as opposed to starving in my native country making 300 bucks a year! My overall point is that its useless to place blame on those who come from disadvantaged backgrounds who are offered an easy way out when you can't blame them for taking that handout. The blame rests solely on those who enable it, corporate America and the government that looks the other way to help them make more $$.
The beauty of all of this is that it can be changed, maybe its not easy, or fast. But it can be done, it remains to be seen if that is possible or if anyone wants to do anything about it.
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