2008 Election

[dananderson32]

i guess between me and you HD it comes down to


"should religion be able to determine whose in love or what is love?"


and you would answer yes and i would answer no

[homedawg]

i guess between me and you HD it comes down to


"should religion be able to determine whose in love or what is love?"


and you would answer yes and i would answer no

Marriage is between a man and a woman as husband and wife!

You want that gay ****, call it something else! Partnership Contract! :thumbs:

[dananderson32]

Marriage is between a man and a woman as husband and wife!

You want that gay ****, call it something else! Partnership Contract! :thumbs:

who says marriage is between a man and a woman a 2,000 year old book? me or you? who is to say what marriage is between ?

[Q-Unit]

in regards to dan and HD.

to me it comes down to this. If my son or daughter were ever to be gay. Would I love them less? No. Would I disown them? No. Would they cease to be my son or daughter? No.

simple as that.

if God is a jealous God *meaning don't love another god, only Him. (notice my capitalizations), then just love HIM. If he is a loving God, that he LOVES all his children, no matter what, that he forgives such as we should forgive our brothers 77 times and over (as stated in the Good Book, not sure on the exact number quoted but you get the jist).

Then whats the problem? We are all his children and though man and woman are meant to be married, is God the vengeful God going to condemn ALL to hell because of a technicality even though at its base its love, even if its perverted or weird in our eyes?

ITs definitely not my place to say but if someone I care about declares their gayness LOLOL sorry its still a funny word, who am I to judge. Who am I to order them who to love or have a hard on for?

I have no more a right to tell someone how to love than to tell my own hand to love my penis LOLOL.


thats just my two cents. it may be wrong, but its not my place to say, thats all I think.

[homedawg]

who says marriage is between a man and a woman a 2,000 year old book? me or you? who is to say what marriage is between ?

I could make a 5 million++++ word post, to answer that question, but instead, I will let you find the answer on your own! :beer2:

[dananderson32]

I could make a 5 million++++ word post, to answer that question, but instead, I will let you find the answer on your own! :beer2:

alright sounds good

[Q-Unit]

just goes to show you, I could start an ingame thread and it wont go to 3 pages unlike a political thread lol.

vote for Perot and everything will be ALRIGHT. for both parties!

"you can't stick a porcupine in a barn, light it on fire and expect to get licorice!"

-Dana Carvey a la Ross Perot-

[homedawg]

There are actually people that do care! :celebrate:

[Skinsfan]

I haven't got through this whole thread yet... but, I wanted to say that this is a great post. :thumbs:

Smear not here. See my posts i.e Obamanomics, Father Daughter Talk, Bill Cosby for Pres, Executive Summary . They all tell the tale of why Obama would be the worst choice for President even for the simple minded that do not know anything beside 4 more years of the same. They state facts and analogy's. The funny thing about the libs is that you challenge them on any issue and it really falls back to the same old dribble i.e they hate bush, more of the same, Bush lied peeps died, no child left a dime and on and on. Seriously most libs form their opinions in bumper sticker quotes hence why you do not see them posting here. Get real. I am here to discuss every issue point for point on why McCain would be better to lead than Obama. I will not even discuss the things about character i.e the anti-america Wright that was his spiritual lead for 20 years, or his great relationship with homegrown terrorist, will not say the pledge of allegience or put his hand on his heart, his wife hates america, ....though in my opinion those things should mean something though smear they may be. Just dont bring me Bush sucks so Obama is the choice. You want higher taxes, socialized health care, harsh regulations on trade, offshore drilling is a bad thing, ANWAR,think you can deal with Iran through diplomacy, think an all out evac of Iraq would be a good thing et. al then I cannot debate you because you are lost to begin with. Read between the lines, or actually read period compare these 2 canidates not this canidate vs the last administration and then lets talk.

As I look back see how the smear on McCain is tying him to Bush, and the smear on Osama is tying him to well himself. Get the point?The intelligence rings through loud and clear.

[FlyersFan]

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/CINCINNATI-OH/WLW-AM/080822_3_cunningham.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=CINCINNATI-OH&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1209&STATION_ID=WLW-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=700WLW&PCAST_CAT=Talk_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Bill_Cunningham_On_Demand

kind of ironic this phone call came into a program i was listening to yesterday on WLW in cincinnati. findi the beginning of the phone call and listen.......it follows an ad for Hoxworth blood center

this is an hour of the show but if you move the dot about 80% of the way over to the right and find a phone call from "gladys on a cell phone"....probably one of the best calls i have ever heard and if this doesn't even make you angrier about people who sit on their ass, play the race card, take my hard earned wages for doing nothing etc...then i don't know what will. and the funny thing is that this is the type of person we SHOULD be helping. someone who WANTS to contribute to society and just needs a little boost. Not tenequa who is 18 in Oakland with 4kids, none of them have dads...and we give her section 8 housing, food stamps etc...and she has a plasmal TV in her living room.....and that is who the liberals pander to

STOP FKING ENABLING PEOPLE TO NOT CONTRIBUTE AND HELP THOSE WHO DO WANT TO.................

if this lady can make it anyone can, and it shows you what this country was "supposed" to be founded on principal wise. not what our government wants to do on the liberal side.


by the way on a side note to BO:

Great post i agree with skins. couldn't have said it any better.

[FlyersFan]

for being conservative and wanting less government in their lives sure seems they want the gov't to ban gay marriage,

:dunno:....here you go dan....

In California, a 2000 voter referendum banned same-sex marriage, but state lawmakers have made two efforts to allow gay and ******* couples to wed

In 2000, 61% of California voters approved a ballot measure, Proposition 22, that said "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid and recognized in California."

i think you have it backwards. it has taken the liberals and government to allow it after we voted against it in this state.

I mean how great is that, we vote on something and then the government decides we don't count and tells us all to **** off. happens ALL THE TIME in CA.....we vote to get rid of illegals and the liberals just come right back over the top and void the propositions we voted on. it's a joke.

seems to me dan that it is the gay rights people who need the liberals in government to give them what they want and not vice versa.

I mean in CA we have had to lay off teacher after teacher because the state has no money for education. Guess where all that money went...it went to pay for Illegals and to fund secion 8 housing and food stamps and special interest groups etc.......so we are pissing on our education system which is the cruxt of what gets people ahead in life in favor of giving money to someone who doesn't want to work, or came here illegally. But CA says everyone deserves and is ENTITLED to things like health care, food etc...even if you don't want to work or came here illegally.

CA is the most liberal state in America and is failing miserably. How anyone could look at CA and then tell me to my face that the liberals have the right idea is beyond me.


In the end, the whole political system is a joke as are the candidates and the people who run it. All this is is a JOB to these people and they get elected to fly around on fancy planes and eat expensive dinners on tax payers money. If you want a good laugh, google Nancy Pelosi's day and check it out. Wow.....my tax money at work. But as much as you may not like bush, voting to take CA and make it the model for America is just awful and will be the ultimate end of entreprenuerial ventures, small business etc......really really scary.

[Q-Unit]

Overall, I think for the first time in a long time (at least in my memory) we are dealing with two GLARING major issues: obviously national security and the economy. At the same time that is.

Whether you like it or not, or care to believe, certain presidencies are subsequently linked to that end. Even if it isnt true. Such as the economic boom with Clinton's presidency, the end of the Cold War with Reagans/Bush's presidency, and again the perceived security during Bush's presidency even at the heels of 9/11. Well I should say in regards to the economy, that it will linked to one man, but its results are not his fruits of labor alone. As opposed to military issues, the president would have more of an influence.

It may be a coincidence or just propaganda but I think looking back, the D's presidents are associated with upturn in economic growth and the R's presidents are associated with military security in general.

So even if there is no direct correlation, in the minds of most Americans, Republicans will be linked with military buildup, emphasis on defense, and somewhat negatively slow economic growth; whereas Democrats will be linked with economic growth, and emphasis on domestic policy. At least in this election Democrats will try to take credit for an economy that though is slow right now, it will turn and when it does, if a Democrat happens to be in office 3-5 years from now, you can bet your ass they will take credit for it.

So even though America has always had to deal with national security and the economy, in my lifetime I don't remember the two being highly prioritized at the same time as they are such now at the peak of election year.

Like with Bush Sr., the economy was bad but the war in Iraq was already an afterthought. Bush's campaign lacked any real plan in turning around the economy while Clinton feasted on this predicament and made sure people knew where he stood.

For Bush Jr.'s 2nd election, with the war in Iraq still raging, he took this platform as to promise to see it through in times of uncertainty and though the election was close, I along most people would agree with experts who feel people will vote for the incumbent in times of war as to not "rock the boat" and see this problem through. The economy was not in the shape it is now, so that was still an issue but not a glaring problem as it is today.

SO my point was that this election is special IMO to me that it is unique in that America is facing two super duper priorities at the SAME time instead of one conveniently on the backburner as in the last couple decades.

So when we vote, we really do have to look at which candidate can/could address both more than adequately even though one of them is ultimately not his to ruin/spark directly aka the economy. That crap is cyclical and though the president does have an influence I cannot believe he is the sole beneficiary.

:beerbang:

[Q-Unit]

FF I agree somewhat and see your point about the experience factor, your thoughts on youth and inexperience but there are always varying points of views obviously or else we'd all look the same, smell the same and be a bunch of boring cockroaches.

To me its simple as this. When you have money, you want to keep it. When you don't have money you want to get your hands on some.

In terms of political parties, if one were to filter out every single crap/B.S. and boiled it down to the basics you have Republicans who look out for the interests of those who have money and want to keep it. and then you have Democrats who look out for people without any and want to get money into their hands. Don't get me wrong, loads of Dems are rich, and I'm not surprised most use that platform as front to get their asses elected to be that comfy. I'm just pointing out general perspectives.

I know things aren't black and white as this, but like I said if you boiled it down to the basics, IMO you could describe it as this. And thats where I kind of see your point. When we're young, unless you inherit or win the lotto, or invent something, or are a superstar athlete, rock star, actor etc... you are not going to be anywhere from upper middle class to wealthy.

You like anyone else that is "normal" will have to work from the bottom up and work your ass off to get money. The average American at age 25 will not have as much money as someone who's 35 or 45 and firmly entrenched in their profession, so it stands to say of course your goals and results will be different.

I'm not talking values or beliefs here because thats a whole different ballgame and we all know sometimes those things don't change.

If I may I can safely assume you (FF) grew up not with silver spoon in hand but not in poverty either, although you had every means to succeed in life, you also had to work for it, and it was not handed out. And once you did succeed, you take issue with fckers trying to screw you over and handing that hard earned $ to people who sit on their butts waiting for handouts.

Of course you're gonna take issue with that. So yeah I see your point. But again you own a business. So you're no slouch. You may not be extremely wealthy, but you're definitely upper middle class unless you run an ice delivery service in Alaska. So while you deservedly reap what you sow, there are multitudes of others who aren't as fortunate. There are millions who just work 9-5. Or worse. They don't own businesses and they also btch about handouts to lazy mofos, and taxes like you do. But when there's no end in sight for them, and all they see are people in political climates pandering to big corporations who just get richer and richer, its hard for them to support a political party whose main image are old rich white men.

It doesn't have to be true, thats just the perception. Republicans are rich white old men, and Democrats are either young, minorities, or mainly poorer people.

I used to wonder why celebrities are generally correlated then with Democrats. Other than being soulless attention whores lol, most celebrities: sports music or Hollywood come from poor backgrounds with the rags to riches story, and most most likely endure to that background and thus endear themselves to the Dems. Thats what I think at least, not really sure.

I mean what's that old saying? "The rich get richer, and the poor have babies?"

So while you have a legitimate btch about the system, and I sympathize with you, I'm just being devil's advocate and pointing out to you that people who are in a lower income bracket will not see it from your perspective. They will just see that Republicans look out for the rich and let the poor get poorer. From your point of view, you probably will say, that you gotta work for what you want. Which rings true, but when you don't know any better, when you have not gotten any breaks, and there's no end in sight to your plight, but mostly when you dont know any better and the govt hands you a check for doing nothing and/or popping out kids to get more, what would you do?

I know you would say, I wouldn't do that, I'd work my ass off to get a better life. Thats the right thing to do. But you know we all live in a world where that will never be possible. I don't believe in handouts either, I think people like that need to contribute to society rather than drain it and I certainly do not support programs to enable that.

The world would definitely be a better place if everyone thought "outside the box", and "walked a mile in the other person's shoes", but thats never gonna happen. I won't see the shyt you deal with on a daily basis and your point of view in that everything you're working hard for will be for naught if Dems are in power. Along that spectrum, you won't see the point of view of others who are in near poverty or constant threat of a stoppage of paychecks, living life on the edge in terms of financial stability. Naturally they will take sides with anyone (in this case the Dems) who look like they are offering a means to help. I'm not saying that the Dems will succeed in this or are righteous in their efforts, just that that is what people in this situation will perceive.

But on the other spectrum, organizations or people who are ridiculously rich and corruptly abuse their status to get richer while stepping on those under them to get there, I nor anyone with conscience would condone that either.

Thats obviously the complications and B.S. associated with BOTH dems and reps.

So I mean I get what you're saying, and I do agree, but I take issue with your bold declaration that my youth or anyone's has any bearing on whether we should agree with you or more accurately I should say, will one day see as you do.

[FlyersFan]

There are millions who just work 9-5. Or worse. They don't own businesses and they also btch about handouts to lazy mofos, and taxes like you do. But when there's no end in sight for them, and all they see are people in political climates pandering to big corporations who just get richer and richer, its hard for them to support a political party whose main image are old rich white men.

Q- that i do agree with, but the days of people voting a party should be gone. that is why you need to do your homework like HD says. i really hope people are voting based on research and not a stereotype. it's like i said, there are moderate republicans and moderate democrats. but Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Obama make Ted kennedy look like a right wing extremist and are the liberals of the liberals, and they control the democratic party right now which is scary beyond scary. if a democrat ran with the right views i would have no problem voting for him.



I don't believe in handouts either, I think people like that need to contribute to society rather than drain it and I certainly do not support programs to enable that.

Q- if you truly believe that statement then you really haven't researched what the democrats in leadership right now do and propose to do because there is no way you could say that and then tell me you are for a liberal point of view, though, you state you are neither. Which once again begs the question of why on earth you would support that if you tell me you aren't a liberal and you believe in your statement directly above this. I hope you wouldn't vote for obama on some mythical undefined "change" and vote for all those other bad things right along with it.

The world would definitely be a better place if everyone thought "outside the box", and "walked a mile in the other person's shoes", but thats never gonna happen. I won't see the shyt you deal with on a daily basis and your point of view in that everything you're working hard for will be for naught if Dems are in power. Along that spectrum, you won't see the point of view of others who are in near poverty or constant threat of a stoppage of paychecks, living life on the edge in terms of financial stability. Naturally they will take sides with anyone (in this case the Dems) who look like they are offering a means to help. I'm not saying that the Dems will succeed in this or are righteous in their efforts, just that that is what people in this situation will perceive.



So I mean I get what you're saying, and I do agree, but I take issue with your bold declaration that my youth or anyone's has any bearing on whether we should agree with you or more accurately I should say, will one day see as you do

Q- i don't think most people under 25 have a clue and i included myself in there when i was 25. you need to experience life to understand it and i don't think someone who is 22 years old gets it. it's not about agreeing with me, it's about being able to make a qualified decision. .

Q- for openers i do applaud you for taking an interest and though i respect you for that....:thumbs:

you really need to listen to that call from that woman i posted above. She came from the worst of the worse and listen to her talk about her tax money leaving. It isn't just "rich" people, it's people who see the light. You have 2 parties and 2 options and NEITHER represents me or most people quite honestly, IMO. but one is a socialist party that wants everyone to be equal and goes directly against everything this country was founded on....hard work, opportunity, freedoms etc......

I don't really think you understand the scope of most social programs Q. They are HANDOUTS. That is what they are. They come in lots of different forms but they are something for nothing programs. We are swimming in them in CA. My sister is a teacher who just finished her Masters and has worked hard at being a teacher. She teaches in an urban area because she wants to help kids. Guess what, her money for raises and more importantly other teachers JOBS are going to fund social programs that ENABLE people to live off of the government. Is there anything more important than an education as a means out of poverty? So we in CA are killing our education system and just giving people things, taking care of illegal mexicans who need help, section 8 housing. Think of it like those morons that try and raise a tiger in their backyard in downtown Dallas or wherever. It never learns to survive in the wild or any survival or necessary skills. All it knows is that you will bring it food 3 times a day. Then the thing gets too big for the owner so they turn it loose in the wild and it dies. Why? Because it can't survive because all it was ever taught was somebody would bring it a meal.

Q- people can come from the bottom of the bottom and make it in this world if they make the right decisions. The problem is that everyone would rather use the race card or point the finger at everyone else rather than take responsibility for their own actions. And that is what the democrats offer to help you with and enable you to do......Here's one for you. Black households have a 51% fatherless rate....that means no dad anywhere in the picture, not even on weekends. When was the last time you heard any black leader talk about fixing that problem? It's always somebody else's fault. It's Don Imus' fault black kids can't get ahead. My sister tells me horror stories about most of the parents that she has to deal with. They are nowhere to be found for parent/teacher night, conferences, anything like that, but then when the kid fails after she's sent home numerous letters saying that is the case, the mom finally shows up in June and blames everybody for the problem but her son and herself. We live in a pass the buck society that enables people to not work and sponge off others. And im sick of it. And so are a lot of people rich or poor.

Do you understand what happens Q when you penalize people like me? If Obama raises my taxes, between payroll tax, ficas, my taxes on wages i may lose .20 on the dollar that i bring home. First thing i am going to do is cut health benefits for everyone because i can no longer afford them. Then im getting rid of child care because **** that, im not paying for it anymore. Can't afford to. Then next year there probably won't be any raises because that money is gone too. So now my employees have no health benefits, no child care, no raises.....and i have less money to spend in OTHER PEOPLE"S businesses. I don't have money anymore to support the local golf shop guy who opened a golf shop because he loves golf and it was always his dream to have one. I don't have money anymore to go out to that local Italian place i like to go to that was opened by an Italian Imigrant family trying to live a dream....and it goes on and on and on. Mulitply that over tens of thousands of people and you have your end result. Plus my employees won't be doing much because they won't be getting raises and now have to find a means to procure health care for their wives, kids etc....guess that daughter won't be getting those braces. So guess that orthodontist won't be getting another patient to help his business.

BUT on the flip side, Chenqua and Jose and Jim the out of work alocoholic are going to be getting a few more dollars in food stamps, a larger section 8 voucher and probably a rebate from the government for taxes they never paid.

So go ahead and vote for Obama and all your friendly neighborhood liberals and vote for all the liberals in congress too so they can get their agenda passed. You are doing nothing but killing the american dream for a lot of people. And most of the people that collect off those social programs are never going to contribute a meaningful thing to society anyway....so lets help them and penalize me and thousands of others like me..



I will leave you with a quick story and then im done in this arena. Ive said my peace.

My sister was going through the drive through at mickey D's getting a coffee after school and she pulled up to the window and this kid recognized her from 7th grade english a few years ago. my sister said he seemed kind of embarassed that she saw him there and he said hello and said that he was just working there as an after school job. he was on schedule to graduate this next year from HS and was looking at getting into a college somewhere. my sister said he was one of her poorer students and was behind most of the time, but always tried hard. she said if he can make it anyone can. she talked with him for a couple of minutes and then drove off. she said it was very rewarding to see someone that was working hard and that looked like they were going to make it and she made sure to tell him that........no race card....no blaming society............no blaming don imus........and truthfully i won't ever pull harder for someone than i would for somebody like that kid. HE IS THE ONE WHO DESERVES OUR HELP....not some low life hanging out in front of a liquor store all day in Oakland living off the government, or some white trash out of work alcoholic, or some illegal mexican who broke our most sacred rule and now we want to reward him.

good luck with whatever voting decision you make Q..........in the end you need to make up your own mind as do others. ......:thumbs:


"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -- Thomas Jefferson

[FlyersFan]

It may be a coincidence or just propaganda but I think looking back, the D's presidents are associated with upturn in economic growth and the R's presidents are associated with military security in general.

did i miss something....:dunno:....was Ronald Reagan a democrat because under Regan this economy was some of the best years people had seen in decades. But then again you may not have been born yet...lol.

and for what it is worth, congress is just as responsible for things as the president. Funny thing is that the democrats have had control of congress for 2 years and have done nothing. They spoke of change 2 years ago. Where is that change? Probably the same "change" obama speaks of.........can't wait for coke in the drinking fountains and longer recesses........They have a lame duck president and majority control in both houses and haven't done squat.