Does America really want a change?

[homedawg]

[dananderson32]

I sit here and read these posts and say "self, are these people that ignorant or is it that I misinterpret what I am reading"....Is it that 9/11 is distant memory for you or is it your civil liberties feel threatened or maybe your part French?Who gives a ****?If you are not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about. Dan dont you have a PETA rally or some ACLU function to be attending?I know it is a hard thing to do, but sometimes you actually have to read between the lines.....Holy ****....Again you prove that your in the right business with that snow shovel!:thumbs: Keep em' coming brother, as I said you and Fish provide for great comedy!

no BO its the fact this administration has tried to state every single thing they do is for "national security" as if thats a legit reason .........its an invasion on my privacy and thousand of other Americans, and the fact that these tapes were saved and then shared with fellow employees at this gov't institution is a complete atrocity and this national security farse that the bush administration has sold all of us is a complete joke :puke: :puke:


the patriot act is a complete slap in the face to the American public

[BoKnows]

and this national security farse that the bush administration has sold all of us is a complete joke :puke: :puke:


the patriot act is a complete slap in the face to the American public

I know you probably were not born yet to remember this, but I can tell you there are many people who feel that protecting our national security interest is an important issue.

YouTube - 9/11

[dananderson32]

I know you probably were not born yet to remember this, but I can tell you there are many people who feel that protecting our national security interest is an important issue.

YouTube - 9/11

i also agree protecting national security is an important issue but to sell to the American people that tapping their lines w/o a notice is for national security and isn't a breach of their right to privacy is a complete farse and the bush administration took another piss on the constitution as if they haven't already been good at that these past 8 years

[BoKnows]

the patriot act is a complete slap in the face to the American public

Here Dan, as I know your still learning......BTW this is just one small example:thumbs:


On January 5, 2005, a drug runner named Noel Exinia, who was engaged in transporting over five hundreds pounds of cocaine from Mexico to New York City, revealed in a telephone conversation that he was interested in other kinds of cargo as well. He spoke about twenty Iraqis, all between the ages of 25 and 33, who would pay $8,000 to get past the Mexico-U.S. border and into the United States. These Iraqis were, he said, in the Mexican cities of Monterrey, Chiapas and Puebla, and were ready to cross into Texas; ultimately, they hoped to get to the Northeast. According to Exinia, they were “la gente de Osama” — Osama’s people. What’s more, they were “dangerous…really bad people.” Even Exinia, with all his experience in the drug underworld as part of the Gulf Cartel, admitted he was afraid of them.


No one would have known any of this, at least until these Iraqis committed a terrorist act on American soil, had it not been for the fact that Exinia’s call was recorded. The recording was permissible under the U.S. Patriot Act.

[dananderson32]

Here Dan, as I know your still learning......BTW this is just one small example:thumbs:


On January 5, 2005, a drug runner named Noel Exinia, who was engaged in transporting over five hundreds pounds of cocaine from Mexico to New York City, revealed in a telephone conversation that he was interested in other kinds of cargo as well. He spoke about twenty Iraqis, all between the ages of 25 and 33, who would pay $8,000 to get past the Mexico-U.S. border and into the United States. These Iraqis were, he said, in the Mexican cities of Monterrey, Chiapas and Puebla, and were ready to cross into Texas; ultimately, they hoped to get to the Northeast. According to Exinia, they were “la gente de Osama” — Osama’s people. What’s more, they were “dangerous…really bad people.” Even Exinia, with all his experience in the drug underworld as part of the Gulf Cartel, admitted he was afraid of them.


No one would have known any of this, at least until these Iraqis committed a terrorist act on American soil, had it not been for the fact that Exinia’s call was recorded. The recording was permissible under the U.S. Patriot Act.

it is still an invasion on yours and my right to privacy and don't tell me i have nothing to worry about if im not doing anything wrong, it is still an invasion on my right to privacy

[dananderson32]

alright HD tell us which one of these wonderful people you are ........we won't be mad ..............its deja vu all over again the republican party fear mongering to simple minded Americans worked 8 years ago .......ain't gonna work this time

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[BoKnows]

it is still an invasion on yours and my right to privacy and don't tell me i have nothing to worry about if im not doing anything wrong, it is still an invasion on my right to privacy

Invade my privacy all you want, if it prevents 9/11 happening again....as the patriot act has. Being in Buffalo so close to NYC I would think that this might resonate with you a little more.....I dont fault you for your naivety though!

[dananderson32]

Invade my privacy all you want, if it prevents 9/11 happening again....as the patriot act has. Being in Buffalo so close to NYC I would think that this might resonate with you a little more.....I dont fault you for your naivety though!

well i guess we differ but then again is that a shocker :laughing: :laughing:

[BoKnows]

well i guess we differ but then again is that a shocker :laughing: :laughing:

It really is not a shocker...I dont go to save the seal pup rallies either. :thumbs:

[homedawg]

alright HD tell us which one of these wonderful people you are ........we won't be mad ..............its deja vu all over again the republican party fear mongering to simple minded Americans worked 8 years ago .......ain't gonna work this time

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"Get a job!" :beer2:

[homedawg]

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ICYMI:


Obama supporters show the world their insanity!


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[dananderson32]

and how disturbing is it to people to witness these mob scenes at McCain rallys in regards to Obama

"kill him"

"off with his head"

harassing and insulting the black camera man who worked the McCain rally

nice to see the true colors of racism coming out once again fired up by the fear mongering machine that is the republican party :puke: :puke:

[homedawg]

The Ohio Secretary of State Under Fire for the ACORN Voter Fraud Allegations. Ohio secretary of state must verify registrations







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[coreyschucky]

John McCain's New Mortgage Plan Is Worse than I Had Imagined Possibly, Even Given What I Know About John McCain

Brad DeLong's Weblog

Douglas Holtz-Eakin says, this morning:

[W]e would in fact be taking the negative equity position and putting it on the taxpayers books instead of putting it on the private lenders books or the homeowners books. We think the balance of risk has shifted to the point where this is the way to go...

What does this mean? It means that John McCain wants to give $100 billion of taxpayers' money to America's worst-behaving mortgage financiers.

Let's back up. For the past month the debate about how to deal with the collapse of the debt-trading portion of America's financial markets has been between two plans: the Paulson plan and the Elmendorf plan:

*

The Paulson Plan: Have the government buy up distressed securities at market value, thus reducing the supply of high-yield debt securities that the private sector must hold. When you reduce the supply of anything you raise its price. Hence the Paulson plan's $700 billion purchases will push the prices of risky debt securities up, and so companies will then be able to sell their bonds again and so hire more workers, and depression will be averted.
*

The Elmendorf Plan: Have the government directly invest in and take an equity stake in troubled banks, thus reassuring their depositors and creditors that they are sound. The banks will then be able to profit by buying up distressed securities--hence raising their prices--and by directly lending to companies that will then be able to hire more workers, and depression will be averted.

The argument for the Paulson plan was that the Elmendorf plan was socialism.

The argument for the Elmendorf plan was that it held the promise of doing a much better job of preventing depression, for each dollar committed to the Paulson plan reduces the gap between the demand and supply of distressed securities by only $1, while each dollar invested in a bank is then leveraged 8-to-1 as bank creditors and depositors are then willing to keep more money in the bank and so reduces the gap between the demand and supply of distressed securities by $8. Eight times as much bang for each federal buck, and the Elmendorf plan ensured that the taxpayers were protected to a greater extent: we did not just have the socialization of loss after the privatization of gain, we had the socialization of any gains that might occur if banks' equity values ever recovered.

The argument for passing Paulson-Dodd-Frank was:

* Time is of the essence: something needs to be done right now.
* Paulson-Dodd-Frank has sufficient flexibility that Assistant Secretary Neel Kashkari and his successors can do either Paulson or Elmendorf, at their judgment.
* The logic of the situation will over time drive Kashkari and his successors toward an Elmendorf-like solution as he deals in the markets.

Now comes John McCain with something worse than Paulson:

Ben Smith's Blog: Moral hazard: Moral hazard My colleague Victoria McGrane, late of our Capitol Hill bureau, emails with the most lucid explanation I've seen of what McCain did last night. The crucial shift from a recent congressional housing bill to McCain's more dramatic plan, she writes, was a move away from concern about moral hazard:

Details provided to reporters by senior adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin Wednesday morning make one thing clear: Taxpayers would directly pick up the tab for the difference in cost between a homeowner’s old, too-expensive mortgage and the cheaper one provided by the government... something that congressional lawmakers, led by House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) specifically avoided when they crafted their own landmark housing bill, which passed in late August and took effect Oct. 1.

Congress’ bill – which Holtz-Eakin says provides at least part of the authority McCain would need to carry out his plan – provided a $300 billion program to help distressed borrowers refinance into cheaper Federal Housing Authority mortgages. But to participate, lenders and mortgage investors would have to reduce the mortgage principal...

Not so McCain's plan. McCain's plan is for the government to buy up $300 billion of distressed mortgages not at current market value but at full face value:

“Clearly we face the trade off that we would in fact be taking the negative equity position and putting it on the taxpayers books instead of putting it on the private lenders books or the homeowners books,” Holtz-Eakin told Politico. “We think the balance of risk has shifted to the point where this is the way to go.”

The McCain plan is:

* Take $300 billion.
* Pay double current market value to banks that have troubled mortgages on their books, thus:
o Give a present of $100 billion to the bankers who made the loans.
o Acquire and regularize the mortgages of only two-thirds as many homeowners as could have been accomplished if the $300 billion were invested wisely.

There's a big difference here: Democrats want to prevent depression and support the financial markets by investing taxpayer money in banks with troubled assets. Republicans want to give taxpayers money away to the shareholders and managers of banks with troubled assets.

I would say that this is unbelievable, but I do believe it.